DOA5 and Sexualization: Too Much?

[Yurlungur]

And yet, plenty of others don't even give a shit and believe Ivy is nothing more than a dominatrix slut(in Argentus's own words) when she's anything but still. And Ivy's story really hasn't changed her all THAT much, it's barely gradual on some cases. Sophitia's dilemma COULD have been a welcome change...if she didn't die in the interim between SCIV and V, same with Cassandra being knocked into the Astral Chaos(fuck you Project Soul).
And you are saying Mitsurugi isn't dull and pointless at this rate? The man who at this point only just stays around and fights shit to the point the only thing plotwise is fight Algol? Yeah sure.

Yeah...i don't view four as anything. I honestly couldn't play the game.
Mitsrugi was on a power quest to become the strongest swordsmen in the world and around the time of soul calibur 2 he realized that he didn't need soul edge in order to do so since he was one of them(he also was curious about soul calibur). Interesting plot development happened when setsuka was around. Since there wasn't really a story in five i can't really tell you what the point of his plot was.

His story is simply ok

 

[Argentus]

It's funny because in almost every other fighting game, you can say the same thing about everyone else...
Zack is virtually a walking punchline now, far bigger than he was before and Hayate...dear god Hayate. Or how about the entire Virtua Fighter cast? Hell, Ryu, the most iconic FG protagonist...barely has a backstory and no real character past "I want to be the strongest".

Only recently did games like Mortal Kombat and Blazblue(and Guilty Gear but considering that it's story mode was limited to certain expansions...eh) even TRY actually giving out indepth storylines with characters that actually evolve overtime. Even Soul Calibur failed miserably at that because only a FEW characters actually changed well enough to matter throughout the series(Siegfried is the big one and that's all I can think of) and that game actually tried it's damnest.

This is not a DOA problem you are talking about Argentus, this is a Fighting Game issue that's on par with most FPS's these days.

And yet, plenty of others don't even give a shit and believe Ivy is nothing more than a dominatrix slut(in Argentus's own words) when she's anything but still. And Ivy's story really hasn't changed her all THAT much, it's barely gradual on some cases. Sophitia's dilemma COULD have been a welcome change...if she didn't die in the interim between SCIV and V, same with Cassandra being knocked into the Astral Chaos(fuck you Project Soul).
And you are saying Mitsurugi isn't dull and pointless at this rate? The man who at this point only just stays around and fights shit to the point the only thing plotwise is fight Algol? Yeah sure.

Why are you talking about story modes? I'm talking about characterization. ivy IS a Dominatrix. Its how she uses her weapons, its how she does her grapples, its in her posture, her tone, everything about her is classic Dom.

When I say "Characterization", I'm talking about how originally, with her moveset and outfits, Mila was presented as a rough and tumble tomboy using a relatively brutal style. Come all the dlc, and now with the hair they gave her in final round, and it looks like they are (trying to) turning her into just another "cute/sexy girl" like Hitomi and Lei Fang.

My point was that characterizations are thrown out the window so instead of any costumes that suit the characters, mostly its just random "sexy outfits" slapped on em without a second thought.

 

[Jyakotu]

Mila was presented as a rough and tumble tomboy using a relatively brutal style. Come all the dlc, and now with the hair they gave her in final round, and it looks like they are (trying to) turning her into just another "cute/sexy girl" like Hitomi and Lei Fang.

Mila has plenty of non DLC costumes that still show off her tomboy style. But you want to talk characterization, you have to realize that we know nothing about Mila, other than she's a fan of the Armstrongs. Also, taking account of her Casual Collection DLC, we see that Mila probably isn't all tomboy like we're lead to believe. She obviously has a softer, feminine side that she likes to show off every once in awhile, like most tomboys. Not to mention, her fighting style still hurts when she's used in the right hands. Lol

 

[Argentus]

Mila has plenty of non DLC costumes that still show off her tomboy style. But you want to talk characterization, you have to realize that we know nothing about Mila, other than she's a fan of the Armstrongs. Also, taking account of her Casual Collection DLC, we see that Mila probably isn't all tomboy like we're lead to believe. She obviously has a softer, feminine side that she likes to show off every once in awhile, like most tomboys. Not to mention, her fighting style still hurts when she's used in the right hands. Lol

We know shes an MMA champion on the worldwide circuit, and athletic girl with a boyish taste in casual clothes (C2) and hair.

Stuff like the casual dlc, I'm chalking up to being like her swimsuits, just handmedowns from the other girls because TN is lazy. Its a cute outfit, but looks out of place on Mila. Could see it being PERFECT for Hitomi or Kasumi though!

But yeah, DLC is nothing to go by lol. casual also had steampunk ayane. Really? Do you REALLY think she goes to steampunk conventions, or that Rig is THAT big a fan of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas? And since when was Lisa pregnant? DLC is literally just random nonsense, and THATS what i'm arguing against.

Only DLC that fit Mila so far was.....her DOA1 Tina outfit, the Bass cosplay, Hitomi's volleyball shirt swimsuit pallete swapped to red and black for Mila, the Schoolgirl outfit (If you ignore the fact that she's in her early 20s...), the pumpkin outfit WOULD have been if you could remove the hat and the wierd diaper was a regular skirt or something, the yellow Goalie outfit from the Sports dlc, and arguably the Night time "Morning after" outfit (I woulda preferred the button up being her actual c2 button up...).

Meaning that over the past YEAR, Mila has gotten absolutely nothing that I feel actually works with her, unless you look at the "bedtime" DLC the same way I do.


Games been out for 2 years, like 600 bucks in dlc released, and yet i'm STILL just using C2 and C6, two default starting outfits, because they are the only ones that I like on the character, really.

Though like I said before, with the new "Sweet girl" hairstyle, I'm just gonna say she has a sister who will then take over all the "cute, non tomboy" outfits lol.

 

[Project Bokuho]

All this over one hairstyle?

 

[Argentus]

All this over one hairstyle?

....huh?

 

[HHH816]

only me and one guy who vote the last option, come on

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

They turned Leifang from a kung fu rival of Jann lee to a fucking airheaded bubbly bisexual underboob idiot. Whats ironic is that they reduced her boob size.. lol.

Its really hopeless at this rate.
I havent played the game for over a month and am loving KI .. very solid game.

I have 3 vids all written up since before japan and I cant find it in me to even make them due to the state the games in... I tried to promote it as a technical fighter as hard as I could but if the company doesnt make the slightest effort then its pointless..

The irony is that once I stopped it seems all technical content stopped.. all you see now is player interviews and tourney news.. and then you find ppl that think they know it all and ramble about tiers when they dont even know how to read frame data.

I dunno if I will continue to support this game in last round to be honest.. the netcode is gonna be my deal breaker.. so we'll see.

But yeah.. till february.. I don't think Ill be playing this game much

 

[Brute]

So fronting up their own money for tournament pot bonuses, promoting tournament events with in-game headlines, and making company reps present at all majors doesn't qualify as "the slightest effort"?

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

So fronting up their own money for tournament pot bonuses, promoting tournament events with in-game headlines, and making company reps present at all majors doesn't qualify as "the slightest effort"?

It counts for nothing if they dont know how to promote it. You dont promote ur game to your own fans.
The only sites really showcasing this are the doa sites... Which is a given.

Even when tfc was happening, major sites hardly gave it any credit despite it having the biggest prize pot and a revolutionary showing...

Ill admit theyre getting better at promoting.. but when u over flood your advetising with tit packs and topless packs you're just bringing back that stigma and everything done is for nothing... They need to really know how to balance out their publicity...

Look at their major youtube channels... Its good that they are now promoting technical videos and tournament fights but none of it is from them... A simple vid would be a patch update promo with the main focus being the changes rather than the costume pack bundled with it...

They dont know how to promote the game... Whether they throw in 500$ or 5,000,000$ into a pot ... Makes no difference.

 

[Brute]

You'll be hard-pressed to find someone who is less fond of TN's sexualization in their marketing, advertising and PR work than me. But to say that those invalidate all of their other efforts is nothing short of ignorant. As convenient as that would be as the sole reason why the DOA competitive community struggles, it's not.

 

[Squizzo]

You'll be hard-pressed to find someone who is less fond of TN's sexualization in their marketing, advertising and PR work than me. But to say that those invalidate all of their other efforts is nothing short of ignorant. As convenient as that would be as the sole reason why the DOA competitive community struggles, it's not.

The doa community struggles in the competitive scene because it doesn't have even half the players of other games. Take a look at the facebook page likes for example:
Street Fighter: 2,037,711
Tekken: 3,262,759
Mortal Kombat: 5,422,560
Smash Bros: 1,535,278
Soul Calibur: 354,795
Dead or Alive: 65,032

 

[werewolfgold]

Facebook is kind of a more Western-y thing, and I wouldn't use it solely to judge even just in those areas.. But, those numbers are pretty jarring nonetheless.

It's more than the Skullgirls page, but not even by a ridiculous amount. Hmmm... I want the game to become more popular, but given the state of things currently and maybe the reputation, I'm not sure what the best move is. There may be nothing wrong with staying "niche", but I would think that more fans would always be somewhat welcome.

 

[UncleKitchener]

They need to do more pre-Doa5 vanilla promotions with the character changes and toolset videos.

I need to see more what's under the bonnet to actually consider buying a vehicle even if it looks gorgeous.

You need a professional presentation to bring more people in. People are not going to find things in common between the games they play and DOA, even if you spell it out and explain in detail. They won't get a proper feel for the game if they don't see a decent presentation.

I like the opposite sextet as much as the other straight male within my demographic and there are more people than just my type that the game appeals to, but you need more core players from other places coming in.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

It counts for nothing if they dont know how to promote it. You dont promote ur game to your own fans.
The only sites really showcasing this are the doa sites... Which is a given.

Even when tfc was happening, major sites hardly gave it any credit despite it having the biggest prize pot and a revolutionary showing...

Ill admit theyre getting better at promoting.. but when u over flood your advetising with tit packs and topless packs you're just bringing back that stigma and everything done is for nothing... They need to really know how to balance out their publicity...

Look at their major youtube channels... Its good that they are now promoting technical videos and tournament fights but none of it is from them... A simple vid would be a patch update promo with the main focus being the changes rather than the costume pack bundled with it...

They dont know how to promote the game... Whether they throw in 500$ or 5,000,000$ into a pot ... Makes no difference.

I remember the DOA Facebook page keeps on advertising the tournaments where the game is being played it. But in the end, I highly doubt that's the problem either.

In the end, I think this is simply just not a popular game simply because of how normal players simply see it as a "counter to win" type thing. And those who are afraid to say it to be called out then goes with the "easy" route and start blaming all over the sexuality route.

Whether or not they focus on more patches, I doubt this is truly gonna change anything about the reception of the game itself. I mean let's look at Ultra Street Fighter 4 lately. All they have for patch notes atm is a Mugen-type mode and a furry costume pack. But what damaged the game's rep? Capcom's own shenanigans. Hell, I think the REAL issue is the fact that fighting games is sadly getting WAY too bloated for people to really try anything else...

Look at how Skullgirls got lost in the shuffle despite being virtually a throwback to MvC2 and how hype it was at the start. You forget how at this point DOA actually IS being taken more seriously than before, the issue is still the fans who act as if it shouldn't. It doesn't matter if Team Ninja put their all into making this like Tekken or Street Fighter in terms of serious, it wouldn't matter because those fans would still cling to sexualization as an excuse.

 

[Argentus]

I remember the DOA Facebook page keeps on advertising the tournaments where the game is being played it. But in the end, I highly doubt that's the problem either.

In the end, I think this is simply just not a popular game simply because of how normal players simply see it as a "counter to win" type thing. And those who are afraid to say it to be called out then goes with the "easy" route and start blaming all over the sexuality route.

Whether or not they focus on more patches, I doubt this is truly gonna change anything about the reception of the game itself. I mean let's look at Ultra Street Fighter 4 lately. All they have for patch notes atm is a Mugen-type mode and a furry costume pack. But what damaged the game's rep? Capcom's own shenanigans. Hell, I think the REAL issue is the fact that fighting games is sadly getting WAY too bloated for people to really try anything else...

Look at how Skullgirls got lost in the shuffle despite being virtually a throwback to MvC2 and how hype it was at the start. You forget how at this point DOA actually IS being taken more seriously than before, the issue is still the fans who act as if it shouldn't. It doesn't matter if Team Ninja put their all into making this like Tekken or Street Fighter in terms of serious, it wouldn't matter because those fans would still cling to sexualization as an excuse.

What cracks me up about people complaining that DOA is "counter/spam holds to win", is its never people who argue for balance, its always people who just want it in the other direction, they want to be able to just rushdown and mash to win

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

What cracks me up about people complaining that DOA is "counter/spam holds to win", is its never people who argue for balance, its always people who just want it in the other direction, they want to be able to just rushdown and mash to win

Pretty much. The FGC in general hasn't earned it's vile reputation on being smart you know.

 

[werewolfgold]

Putting the people who have already written off DOA for dubious gameplay reasons aside, lately I've realized that some would likely stay away from the game just because of the existing fanbase. After all, wasn't it TN's intention to "tone things down" before the fans said no?

I suppose people are free to want what they want. But, recently, I was just watching a tournament match vid on YouTube. What do I see in the suggestion sidebar?

• DOA5 nude mod 18+
• Marie Rose ペロペロ (lick lick)
• Ryona vid
• Story mode vid (but the video image is Hayate in Kasumi's crotch for some reason)
• Another story mode vid (this time with Tina in her legendary swimsuit with her legs spread wide open)
• KASUMI XXX SEXY HOT ACTION!!! (I don't even)
• Another actual tournament vid (yay!)
• Marie Rose is mai waifu
• DOA5 Sexy Swimsuit preview

Seriously, it was like one other tournament vid. So, these are not quite things that TN are officially doing by any means. This is what supposed fans are doing. I mean, if I wasn't already involved in the game for all these years previous, I can't say for sure that I would even want to get involved if that's all that was being shown to me (though I'm sure somebody would). But, that type of thing is not nearly the case when watching a vid showcasing the gameplay of other fighting game entries. (Or maybe I just haven't watched the one that brings up that "perfect" list of suggestions.) And people already mentioned what happens if you put Dead or Alive in an image search. Are people even getting the chance to dislike the hold system?

That and you got multiple people commenting on the Raidou vids like "I don't care about another male character. No boobs, no buy." I mean, if you think that Raidou looks boring or something, that is one thing. Saying that the game doesn't need anymore male characters, not even Raidou, no more male characters, is quite something else, especially when males are currently outnumbered actually.

I'm not saying that anything can or should be done about those people, but...some people understandably may not want to be associated with that type of thing.

 

[Awesmic]

Putting the fans who have already written off DOA for dubious gameplay reasons aside, lately I've realized that some would likely stay away from the game just because of the existing fanbase. After all, wasn't it TN's intention to "tone things down" before the fans said no?

I suppose people are free to want what they want. But, recently, I was just watching a tournament match vid on YouTube. What do I see in the suggestion sidebar?

• DOA5 nude mod 18+
• Marie Rose ペロペロ (lick lick)
• Ryona vid
• Story mode vid (but the video image is Hayate in Kasumi's crotch for some reason)
• Another story mode vid (this time with Tina in her legendary swimsuit with her legs spread wide open)
• KASUMI XXX SEXY HOT ACTION!!! (I don't even)
• Another actual tournament vid (yay!)
• Marie Rose is mai waifu
• DOA5 Sexy Swimsuit preview

Seriously, it was like one other tournament vid. So, these are not quite things that TN are officially doing by any means. This is what supposed fans are doing. I mean, if I wasn't already involved in the game for all these years previous, I can't say for sure that I would even want to get involved if that's all that was being shown to me (though I'm sure somebody would). But, that type of thing is not nearly the case when watching a vid showcasing the gameplay of other fighting game entries. (Or maybe I just haven't watched the one that brings up that "perfect" list of suggestions.) And people already mentioned what happens if you put Dead or Alive in an image search. Are people even getting the chance to dislike the hold system?

That and you got multiple people commenting on the Raidou vids like "I don't care about another male character. No boobs, no buy." I mean, if you think that Raidou looks boring or something, that is one thing. Saying that the game doesn't need anymore male characters, not even Raidou, no more male characters, is quite something else, especially when males are currently outnumbered actually.

I'm not saying that anything can or should be done about those people, but...some people understandably may not want to be associated with that type of thing.

This is the most unoffensive, neutral in-depth post I've read in months.

 

[David Gregg]

The reputation of DOA being a heavily sexualized game isn't going to change any time soon. Outside gamers don't want to view DOA with unbiased eyes either. If my time on the Tekken forums has taught me anything it's that they're quick to compare "anime" or "sexualized" characters to DOA but when you try to present them with other aspects of DOA like the actual gameplay or the variety of fighters they either ignore it or tell you to stay on topic.