DOA5 Demo: Consolidated Feedback

[UncleKitchener]

Making all wake up kicks unsafe on block won't really do much if throws (what we use to punish) are escapable lol?

You haven't played VF, have you?

 

[ShinMaruku]

Most people have no played VF.

 

[ScattereDreams]

You haven't played VF, have you?

Yeah but, still new . Giggity >.>

 

[Berzerk!]

You can't add throw escapes without making some adjustments to throws or providing more details. What would be the escape window and can you buffer a throw escape while holding block? Right now you can't do ANYTHING while holding block without canceling the block animation. If you have to release block to input the throw escape (like MK9), it basically makes them useless.

I might add clarify it "cannot throw break while at high frame disadvantage/recovery, and throw breaks must match direction input of the throw". It wouldn't be a problem if implemented like VF as you don't have a big window to throw break and you have to have a good sense of WHICH throw they are using. VF currently just uses left and right if I remember VF5FS changes correctly.

I don't mind wakeup kicks being unsafe, but they should have enough push back so that you can't just get easy throw punishment from them. I prefer the VF method of having the wakeup kick being negative on hit (I'm thinking -4) and evaded by a properly timed sidestep.

Sure, it might be better to clarify wakeup kicks should be at disadvantage, as "unsafe" implies guaranteed throw. I think a guaranteed normal low throw isn't such a bad thing though.
Basically, the VF system is exactly what I'd be gunning for re wakeupkicks. DOA wakeups would still be better since there's 3 of them.... but then again, you can counter them too.

 

[Berzerk!]

Most people have no played VF.

And this is to the detriment of all.

 

[grap3fruitman]

I'm pretty sure that wakeup kicks are plenty unsafe in the demo. I played a handful of matches the other day and I was regularly being low-thrown after my wakeups being blocked.

 

[Berzerk!]

I'm pretty sure that wakeup kicks are plenty unsafe in the demo. I played a handful of matches the other day and I was regularly being low-thrown after my wakeups being blocked.

Yeah, I'd like to put more time in around this because I've noticed similar things, I just don't know how far it goes. They still seem to stun and have invincibility, but if you do the right type of move against the right height of kick, you can beat them out. EG, Hitomi's up/forward K goes over low wakeup kicks - I guess because she is airborne and the game lets you hop over now. I hope this is consistent.

 

[HokutoNoBen]

And this is to the detriment of all.

What I'm hoping is that this game, with its VF guests, is but merely the first step towards a true DOA+VF collab orchestrated by AM2. Such a game may not be quite the "Fighters Megamix 2" I always wanted as a kid, but dammit, it'd be close enough! 8D

 

[Chris Harris]

Are you guys serious right now? The low wake up kick was always punishable. . . . .and if you had a hop kick you could beat lower kicks (though in DoA4 it was still a chance they could hit you out of it)

 

[Dr. Teeth]

VF currently just uses left and right if I remember VF5FS changes correctly.

I thought it was left, right, and neutral?

 

[Allan Paris]

I'm pretty sure that wakeup kicks are plenty unsafe in the demo. I played a handful of matches the other day and I was regularly being low-thrown after my wakeups being blocked.

Try grabbing those mid and high wake up-kicks. I think they are still safe, for now, hopefully that will change.

 

[Master_Thespian]

I thought it was left, right, and neutral?

It is.

 

[DrDogg]

In SCIV there were stages that had P2 starting near a ring out and all P1 had to do was score 1 combo or clean hit for that matter to win the round, Project soul changed that in SCV where every stage starts off neutral.

It still happens in SC5, but I've never seen it as an issue. Just sidestep.

Could you clarify that for me? It sounds like it's the same, in DOA4 you couldn't hit someone until they were fully standing anyways. The unholdable setups were if your attack frame was on the frame of them returning to standing - hence they could not hold. It's possible the changes to the attack frame data or the wake-up animation timing have been changed and we just don't know the formula at this time.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but just would like some clarification on how you came to that conclusion.

I think the grounded player either takes longer to get up, giving them more invincibility frames or they're invincible until they're completely standing. In DOA4, you usually wanted an attack around 15 frames or so in order to get the uncounterable forced tech setup (this varied by character of course). In DOA5, a 20-frame attack goes right through the opponent.

I watch some of the DOA4 videos on my YT channel, and it's clear that when you force teched in that game, you could hit the opponent before they were fully standing.

Look at this video at 1 minute:

 

[Allan Paris]

I think the grounded player either takes longer to get up, giving them more invincibility frames or they're invincible until they're completely standing. In DOA4, you usually wanted an attack around 15 frames or so in order to get the uncounterable forced tech setup (this varied by character of course). In DOA5, a 20-frame attack goes right through the opponent.

I watch some of the DOA4 videos on my YT channel, and it's clear that when you force teched in that game, you could hit the opponent before they were fully standing.

Look at this video at 1 minute:

@ 1:00 you threw him once he held.

 

[x Sypher x]

@ 1:00 you threw him once he held.

Yeah but then after the forced tech setup he landed a mid punch as Sorwah was standing, at about 1:02.

Oh god 4:27 was awesome!

 

[ScattereDreams]

In SCIV there were stages that had P2 starting near a ring out and all P1 had to do was score 1 combo or clean hit for that matter to win the round, Project soul changed that in SCV where every stage starts off neutral.

thought I'd share my match... I don't think that's true xD

 

[Jefffcore]

That was interesting. I wanna know what Sorwah was pressing.

 

[x Sypher x]

Lol that ringout at 0:27 was nuts xD I like your customized character too, kinda looks like a captain from Bleach.

 

[Allan Paris]

That was interesting. I wanna know what Sorwah was pressing.

Yeah, he was pressing something.

That's why he got hit DrDogg, Zack has that in some of his setups as well. Depending whether or not you press a button during his setups, his attacks will hit if you press any button, or they will whiff if you do absolutely nothing. It's not really "clear" that you can do that; attacking someone before they were fully standing.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I think the grounded player either takes longer to get up, giving them more invincibility frames or they're invincible until they're completely standing. In DOA4, you usually wanted an attack around 15 frames or so in order to get the uncounterable forced tech setup (this varied by character of course). In DOA5, a 20-frame attack goes right through the opponent.

I watch some of the DOA4 videos on my YT channel, and it's clear that when you force teched in that game, you could hit the opponent before they were fully standing.

Look at this video at 1 minute:

1) I hate that game
2) I hate that character (both of them)
3) I hate that stage

Besides that, it's not that 15i attacks is what mattered. The formula was that I believe the force tech was 50 or 52 frames of animation. You would have to take the number of frames of recovery was for the attack that forced the opponent up, subtract that from the 50 or 52 frames of animation, then you have to also take the frame (dis)advantage on normal hit to that resulting number. That would give you the exact frame for which you the opponent came out of the animation and an attack you would need to perform in order to hit them on that same exact frame. The more hit frames you had in an attack the greater window you had to be on that frame. I could prove this theory for someone if they provide me the frame data for an unholdable situation such as Bass' .

So in short, it's possible it still exists in DOA5 but I honestly haven't had the time to figure it out, verify or deny it. Maybe this weekend when virtuaPAI comes down to play some matches and help really tear down the demo.