DOA5+ for PS Vita

[Matt Ponton]

Not if you add all the months we spent trying to figure out why DOA4 was the piece of shit it was.

I found that out in the first week. The only growth that game really had was the unholdable force-techs 6 months in.

DOA3 came out in Feb 2002, DOA4 came out in Dec 2005. Even with DOA2U in Nov 2004 causing a slight deterrence, players will still playing DOA3. In addition, there was a surge of new players who were able to congregate using the DOA2U online and practice and hear about DOA3.1/3.2 which helped further the meta game even then - 2 years at minimum.

I'd like to see how DOA is when it's aged to the double digit months.

 

[DR2K]

I found that out in the first week. The only growth that game really had was the unholdable force-techs 6 months in.

DOA3 came out in Feb 2002, DOA4 came out in Dec 2005. Even with DOA2U in Nov 2004 causing a slight deterrence, players will still playing DOA3. In addition, there was a surge of new players who were able to congregate using the DOA2U online and practice and hear about DOA3.1/3.2 which helped further the meta game even then - 2 years at minimum.

I'd like to see how DOA is when it's aged to the double digit months.

I think a lot of the same things are holding DOA5 back the same way DOA4 is. A lot of things were improved, but the heart of the game is still too guess based.

There are things to be discovered. We went from Helena being trash to tournmanet winning character in a really short time for example.

Team Ninja is updating the game and it sounds like they're listening, so here's hoping DOA5.1 actually does become the game they advertised to the community.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

Doa3.0 that is inferior to 3.1 is far better than Doa5. Even Doa2 Ultimate is better than doa5.

Oh, I'm sure they are, but like I said, I don't know anyone locally to play with, so 3.0 an 2U are useless to me.

Doa5 have all the right tools available, but need to be tweaked for optimization. If done correctly, it can be far better than Doa 3.1.

This do not need be the case. If Vf is the series they are inspired by, than they(Team Ninja) need to also implement AM2's update system...as in having multiple minor revisions with major updates(i.e vers. A-D). This is how they kept the series balanced. With such a balancing system, Doa5 will be able to reach its full potential with out a problem.

That would be great, but they aren't using that system. It seems to me that TN made the game they wanted to and aren't interested in revisiting what made the game work with 3.1. So, they may change some things to please some fans, but it ultimately won't change much from it's current state.

That's what I think anyway, but I'd love to be wrong.

 

[UncleKitchener]

I've been playing this game on and off for the past three months and it's just a half-baked product to me. Half the time I try doing Bass' hold, I end up with a TFBB, just because I held forward before performing the move. While I appreciate TN's efforts for making it easier for me to do something, it's also making it hard doing the other. It's basically like missing your head, but you still manage to shoot yourself in the foot. This is bullshit and no other game does that.

There are other thing I could take issue with like the stun, force techs, flawed SS system and things that were done well in the E3 or beta versions of the game but I doubt they'd be addressed unless everyone here pressure TN to do so.

Everyone was so vocal prior to the game's release, but now you're in false state of contentment and you need to go back to demanding major changes. While TN are hard working developers, they need to understand they're not making an action game and if people don't see meaningful changes, then there is no point in trying to play this game competitively and best to just move with something else. Not trying to be preachy; I'm being truthful.

Now, I doubt these changes will be applied to the Vita version, but I'm still hopeful something might come out of this.

 

[d3v]

I've been playing this game on and off for the past three months and it's just a half-baked product to me. Half the time I try doing Bass' hold, I end up with a TFBB, just because I held forward before performing the move. While I appreciate TN's efforts for making it easier for me to do something, it's also making it hard doing the other. It's basically like missing your head, but you still manage to shoot yourself in the foot. This is bullshit and no other game does that.

Now you know how veteran SF players feel when moving into SFIV.

 

[DR2K]

Now you know how veteran SF players feel when moving into SFIV.

Problem is they had is just right for newcomers in DOA4. It was already simplified, now some motions are just flat out harder to do.

I can not do Eliot's 46p strings at all.

 

[MESSY]

What's this with you ppl keep bashing DOA4!? It is a very good all-round game. It was DOA4 that made this game where it was. DOA5 cannot even slightly compare to the popularity of DOA4.

As for DOA3.1, in terms of balance it is the WORST OF THE WORST. It is not so "high level". You may like the game because you are a Bass player but if your main is Ayane or Kasumi or Helena etc. you are gonna hate your life for the rest of your life.

If you guys really like big damage combos soooo much why not play Tekken!?

If like all you guys said DOA should be popular when it's close to DOA3.1. Now is the time, in DOA5 you have ceiling combos that guarantees 200+, normal hit combos leading to 150+, counters that does 150+ etc. When you are playing against certain characters. 2 to 3 wrong guesses it's game. Is that skill? How do you prevent a 9-year old kid learning a super combo and finishes you off just like that?? Well I can guarantee this won't happen in DOA4 at least.

Why are people still moaning!? Isn't the game better now but why less players play? What's wrong? I saw a thread being locked because it mentioned banning characters from tournaments. Why? The balance of the game now is a lot worse than DOA4. Do we really need admins to guide the discussions to the "correct directions"?

Of course I'm blaming TN for releasing an unfinished game. The spirit of DOA in TN has long gone. But more than that, I'm done with a lot of you guys here. All complaining, no solution.

 

[MESSY]

blah

OK if you don't like the stun game pick a character like Jann Lee. He's got all the tools to avoid the stun game and then do 150+ damage combos. When you know what you are doing it's almost impossible for ppl to get away with being stunned by Jann Lee. It's not that hard to do, every DOA beginner can play like that.

I don't see how this is "glorified doa4".

2 guaranteed combos you are dead. How can this game be deeper than DOA4? Even right now DOA5 is too easy for learning.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Kasumi Ayane and Helena could each take down the top tier in 3. Hell, Ayane was top in 3.

 

[DR2K]

OK if you don't like the stun game pick a character like Jann Lee. He's got all the tools to avoid the stun game and then do 150+ damage combos. When you know what you are doing it's almost impossible for ppl to get away with being stunned by Jann Lee. It's not that hard to do, every DOA beginner can play like that.

I don't see how this is "glorified doa4".

2 guaranteed combos you are dead. How can this game be deeper than DOA4? Even right now DOA5 is too easy for learning.

Jann Lee does not avoid the stun system, he plays it a little less.Jann has to guess 2 or 3 times before he does any major damage.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

The balance of the game now is a lot worse than DOA4.

Not as far as I've seen. I'm not one in the know enough to be able to make a tier list, but from my experience and from what I've read here, the balance in DOA5 seems better than that of DOA4. In DOA4, the ninja characters, Gen Fu, Helena, and SPARTAN dominated, while most everyone else was garbage.

 

[virtuaPAI]

What's this with you ppl keep bashing DOA4!? It is a very good all-round game. It was DOA4 that made this game where it was. DOA5 cannot even slightly compare to the popularity of DOA4.

-Doa4 overall was horrible as a competitive fighter. It tried so hard to be VF4, without the intricacies that made that particular game great.

As for DOA3.1, in terms of balance it is the WORST OF THE WORST. It is not so "high level". You may like the game because you are a Bass player but if your main is Ayane or Kasumi or Helena etc. you are gonna hate your life for the rest of your life.

-You are horribly incorrect. We American players broke the game down a lot further (Thanks to Mr. Tom Brady) than any other region of players. Ayane was just as strong as Bass, if not stronger. Kasumi was just as strong, along with Hayate, Gen Fu, Hayabusa and a few other Characters. Even with that said, Tina who was a tier lower was still able to compete. That is balance sir.

If you guys really like big damage combos soooo much why not play Tekken!?

-Why must you think it is all about big damage combos? Just to make you in the know, it was absolutely never about big damage combos. Players want to formulate strategies, tactics and play style based on solid play. The Majority of Doa players did not like Doa4 because it did not provide/promote a solid play style, it was all about guessing.

If like all you guys said DOA should be popular when it's close to DOA3.1. Now is the time, in DOA5 you have ceiling combos that guarantees 200+, normal hit combos leading to 150+, counters that does 150+ etc. When you are playing against certain characters. 2 to 3 wrong guesses it's game. Is that skill? How do you prevent a 9-year old kid learning a super combo and finishes you off just like that?? Well I can guarantee this won't happen in DOA4 at least.

-That is absolutely considered skill. Why should anyone make multiple mistakes and not be punished for it. You act as if players are not capable and/or able of having effective and efficient defence. It is quite sickening that you do not take proper defence into equation. If you properly applied defensive techniques, there is no way in hell a 9 year old will beat you. There is no wonder Itagaki and others on Team Ninja continue to state that Western players posses a higher skill level than all other Doa players.

Why are people still moaning!? Isn't the game better now but why less players play? What's wrong? I saw a thread being locked because it mentioned banning characters from tournaments. Why? The balance of the game now is a lot worse than DOA4. Do we really need admins to guide the discussions to the "correct directions"?

-Are you serious!!! Doa4 was an abomination to the series. There was never a need to have a discussion about banning anyone in Doa4, because the game was severely bland and everyone played exactly the same. Except for those characters that could take advantage of the forced tech system.

Of course I'm blaming TN for releasing an unfinished game. The spirit of DOA in TN has long gone. But more than that, I'm done with a lot of you guys here. All complaining, no solution.

-You seem to be unaware, numerous amount of players had provided a multitude of solutions to make Doa5 a far superior fighter. You want to know why Doa5 is sub par, it is because Team Ninja wanted to include all players in the mix, and not leave anyone out. Let me be direct. It is you players from other regions that is holding the game back. Doa3 sold more copies than any other Doa game. It sold well due to western players( America and Europe). I remember back in 2002 having a dinner with some Japanese VF players(who happened to play Doa3.1). I asked why Doa3 wasn't taken seriously? I was told because there was no effective side stepping in the game. Wtf. Why were we able to find out that command side stepping attacks were extremely effective, a long with Freestep dodging. You guys are clearly not as good as you think you are, and it was proven on multiple occasions.

OK if you don't like the stun game pick a character like Jann Lee. He's got all the tools to avoid the stun game and then do 150+ damage combos. When you know what you are doing it's almost impossible for ppl to get away with being stunned by Jann Lee. It's not that hard to do, every DOA beginner can play like that.

-Sorry to burst your bubble every character still play the stun game( some more so than others). This is just another example of the lack of understanding of the game.

I don't see how this is "glorified doa4".

2 guaranteed combos you are dead. How can this game be deeper than DOA4? Even right now DOA5 is too easy for learning.

-This type of understanding is exactly why every other player base is at the bottom of the Totem pole. For your opponent to kill you with just two guaranteed combos, he has to set you up first. If you have a solid defence...aka blocking, stepping, holding, crushing..etc, your opponent will not able to pull this feat off. From watching vids of other region players, you guys rarely block, and condone this take a turn form of play style(you attack, than your opponent attack...so forth an so on). You guys rarely take advantage of the defensive(also offensive) techniques that is available to you to exploit. Since you are not taking advantage of the full possibilities of the game, there is no wonder that you do not understand the Doa series as much as western player.

 

[Skilletor]

OK if you don't like the stun game pick a character like Jann Lee. He's got all the tools to avoid the stun game and then do 150+ damage combos. When you know what you are doing it's almost impossible for ppl to get away with being stunned by Jann Lee. It's not that hard to do, every DOA beginner can play like that.

I don't see how this is "glorified doa4".

2 guaranteed combos you are dead. How can this game be deeper than DOA4? Even right now DOA5 is too easy for learning.

Can you please tell me of a guaranteed combo that can kill you if you get hit by it twice in DoA5? That is that, after you have been hit by the first attack, everything else is guaranteed after it.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Not as far as I've seen. I'm not one in the know enough to be able to make a tier list, but from my experience and from what I've read here, the balance in DOA5 seems better than that of DOA4. In DOA4, the ninja characters, Gen Fu, Helena, and SPARTAN dominated, while most everyone else was garbage.

DOA4 was more balanced because the hold system helped even things out seeing as even if your character sucked you could rely on high damage counters to win. DOA5 is built on guaranteed set ups, characters like Jann Lee can throw out attacks that give him at least +23 where as a character like Helena has end of string sit down stuns that give her +13 at best.

Unless TN makes guaranteed set ups a universal tool instead of giving it to a few characters and shunning the rest this games balance is going to look like garbage.

Oh and the ninja's being top tier was a myth in DOA4, only Busa and Ayane were up there. Hayate and Kasumi were okay but kind of meh.

 

[Sly Bass]

Can you please tell me of a guaranteed combo that can kill you if you get hit by it twice in DoA5? That is that, after you have been hit by the first attack, everything else is guaranteed after it.

Bass' 1P into that insane air jumping throw. However, the throw is not guaranteed.

 

[Skilletor]

Bass' 1P into that insane air jumping throw. However, the throw is not guaranteed.

Right. So...Still looking for an example.

 

[MajesticBlue]

2 of Ryu's ceiling Izuna combos might kill. Then again that is a throw not an attack ..only on a few stages..and who stops attacking him long enough to get it? On heavy weights and Akira he gets a guaranteed sitdown stun into CB! into powerblow. Random Izuna holds ftw.

 

[synce]

I know of a combo that can do 270 damage on CH but you get one chance to guess and it only works in tag. Anyway there's nothing wrong with that, it makes the game exciting. I never join rooms with largest lifebar because it encourages reckless play

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

DOA4 was more balanced because the hold system helped even things out seeing as even if your character sucked you could rely on high damage counters to win. DOA5 is built on guaranteed set ups, characters like Jann Lee can throw out attacks that give him at least +23 where as a character like Helena has end of string sit down stuns that give her +13 at best.

Unless TN makes guaranteed set ups a universal tool instead of giving it to a few characters and shunning the rest this games balance is going to look like garbage.

Okay, I suppose that makes sense. A valid point, but that's still pretty bad that the only reason the characters were "balanced" was because holds did so much damage.

 

[Rikuto]

What's this with you ppl keep bashing DOA4!? It is a very good all-round game. It was DOA4 that made this game where it was. DOA5 cannot even slightly compare to the popularity of DOA4.

Both Japan and US tournament numbers beg to differ. Strongly.

As for DOA3.1, in terms of balance it is the WORST OF THE WORST. It is not so "high level". You may like the game because you are a Bass player but if your main is Ayane or Kasumi or Helena etc. you are gonna hate your life for the rest of your life.

Bayman and Leon had no such juggle potential. They didn't even have wall potential, and they were beastly in that game. Life was enjoyed.

If you guys really like big damage combos soooo much why not play Tekken!?

A lot of us do. As does the most of the fighting game world. Only a few of us bother to play DOA. See the problem?

If like all you guys said DOA should be popular when it's close to DOA3.1. Now is the time, in DOA5 you have ceiling combos that guarantees 200+, normal hit combos leading to 150+, counters that does 150+ etc. When you are playing against certain characters. 2 to 3 wrong guesses it's game. Is that skill? How do you prevent a 9-year old kid learning a super combo and finishes you off just like that?? Well I can guarantee this won't happen in DOA4 at least.

You can't guarantee anything won't happen in DOA 4. Thats the problem. lolz.

But how do you stop it? By giving more damage to more characters to make it riskier to use the nuclear option... and giving those characters ways to run logical damage control to help prevent it, like every other fighting game in existence.

For example in another fighting game, if I'm in a situation where I put my back to a wall and my opponent could throw me into it for a combo that does 50%, I can choose to break that throw and reduce the possible damage from the alternative to 20%. If there is a ceiling over my head in DOA, all I can do is pray to god I can get them out of that area ASAP... which is a solution, but it can be a very difficult one and I want a more reasonable form of damage control.

The guessing involved there is too wild, too reckless, too unlogical. Neither side learns anything about the other players personality, and therefore has a difficult time reading them. That's the problem the game has in my mind. Controlled guessing leads to a set of interesting mindgames that let you determine what a person is really like on the inside. Is he the type of guy who uses the weak shit over and over again because he knows you're scared of losing the 50%? or is he the type who throws down the gauntlet and keeps making those high damage reads to keep you honest?

Why are people still moaning!? Isn't the game better now but why less players play? What's wrong? I saw a thread being locked because it mentioned banning characters from tournaments. Why? The balance of the game now is a lot worse than DOA4. Do we really need admins to guide the discussions to the "correct directions"?

It has more players than DOA 4. You are also in a geographical location that doesn't permit you to make anything resembling a fair assessment of the popularity of the game beyond its online play, which is pretty flawed.

Of course I'm blaming TN for releasing an unfinished game. The spirit of DOA in TN has long gone. But more than that, I'm done with a lot of you guys here. All complaining, no solution.

We have solutions. The people who enjoy DOA 4 don't seem to like them.

Again, I enjoy guessing when the options are very distinct from each other. The messed up stun system and high damage of every possible option doesn't allow for that. In DOA 4, it was even more impossible to gauge intention. There is more to mind games than pattern recognition, but that's all that DOA 4 had.