DOA5: New Gameplay Demo Trailer of Ayane and Hayabusa

[MrMoon360]

and if they free cancel and, you counter you get thrown.



Honestly, how is it any different from SCV with Astaroth's 1A,A/1A,B? Or his counterhit 6k? You have 2 grab options and 1 chance to guess right.
(Sorry if you don't know what i'm referring to. Most people know Astaroth's moveset). What DOA5 need's is some fuzzy guard inputs. More safe options and, alternatives for countering.

Ah. And then counter damage...

But would a free cancel on that particular move be quick enough for a free grab?

And no, I'm not familiar with Astaroth's movelist. Let alone SCV since my character had been stripped. (Yun Seong) I'll get it on a price drop. Heard it wasn't worth $60.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Let alone SCV since my character had been stripped. (Yun Seong) I'll get it on a price drop. Heard it wasn't worth $60.

$30 + shipping through Toys R Us via Ebay. No excuses now. =P

 

[Darrell]

Iiking the sidestep at 1:14

 

[ScattereDreams]

Ah. And then counter damage...

But would a free cancel on that particular move be quick enough for a free grab?

And no, I'm not familiar with Astaroth's movelist. Let alone SCV since my character had been stripped. (Yun Seong) I'll get it on a price drop. Heard it wasn't worth $60.

Well in DOAD if you low counter you're pretty much stuck in that position long enough for someone with good reactions to grab you. Those Astaroth moves are the exact same input/animation as in 4 ^.^

In VF5 if you do a safe move you can crouch dash and, hold guard afterwards allowing you to dodge grabs and, block mids at the same time. SCV you can stand blocking and, tap up allowing you to block mids/highs and, jump over the start up of lows (you can also input A/B in case your opponent trys to throw you while blocking).

So to eliminate guessing between mid, lows and grabs in DOA a fuzzy guarding technique wouldn't be a bad idea. Other fighters implement them.

 

[Matt Ponton]

DOA has fuzzy guarding, it's had it since DOA2. It's just slowing down the throw speeds where there is a 1-7 frame difference in hit frame ends up making it useless. Other games typically have all their throw speeds the same.

 

[DrDogg]

Not sure why it hadn't been posted, it was on my status update here.

If you're going to break down a video, why are you breaking down outdated footage and not the Akira trailer?

Honestly, how is it any different from SCV with Astaroth's 1A,A/1A,B? Or his counterhit 6k? You have 2 grab options and 1 chance to guess right.

1AA and 1AB is not a mixup. After the 1A, you have plenty of time to see the next option and react accordingly. In fact, most good players can see the 1A coming.

And no, I'm not familiar with Astaroth's movelist. Let alone SCV since my character had been stripped. (Yun Seong) I'll get it on a price drop. Heard it wasn't worth $60.

You heard wrong.

DOA has fuzzy guarding, it's had it since DOA2. It's just slowing down the throw speeds where there is a 1-7 frame difference in hit frame ends up making it useless. Other games typically have all their throw speeds the same.

^This. Throws in SC are a 50/50, but they're 17 frames on the average, which is enough time to allow you to duck on reaction. You can also buffer a throw break into your block.

 

[MrMoon360]

$30 + shipping through Toys R Us via Ebay. No excuses now. =P

I may consider getting it now xD

Well in DOAD if you low counter you're pretty much stuck in that position long enough for someone with good reactions to grab you. Those Astaroth moves are the exact same input/animation as in 4 ^.^
\

Well I guess the point has been proven again that no fighting game is void of guessing situations? That move given to Hayabusa just shows they're picking favorites, so to speak. Just throwin' him in top tier?

Look at UMVC3 though... but I guess you depend on teams in that game.
(Although, I consider Wesker and Dante One Men armies.)

 

[MASTER]

Except I'm not just guessing between high and low here though. Busa has the ability to delay either of those follow-ups by however many frames. So now on top of guessing which level he'll attack, I'm also guessing when he'll attack. He can also not do anything but I can't tell if he free-canceled or is just delaying his string. By the time I can tell, I've missed my opportunity to react accordingly. I'm constantly guessing in this scenario. Tone down the string delay and make people commit to an attack.

It seems like you could just side step, since its in the game now and that move on the first part doesn't seem to recover that fast still on free cancel. I never really considered high and low moves mix up in DOA much though since most well trained players can see the free cancel and/or delay and react accordingly.

MASTER

 

[MrMoon360]

You heard wrong.

Matter of opinion, I suppose.

^This. Throws in SC are a 50/50, but they're 17 frames on the average, which is enough time to allow you to duck on reaction. You can also buffer a throw break into your block.

I've been watching VF5:FS fights on YouTube lately, thinking I really should get on the bandwagon. Those grabs look fast.

 

[MASTER]

If you're going to break down a video, why are you breaking down outdated footage and not the Akira trailer?

Why would i break down a video, that had already been broken down (here) already? o__O. (I have considered it still but seeing it already broken down didnt seem that it was as necessary)

MASTER

 

[ScattereDreams]

DOA has fuzzy guarding, it's had it since DOA2. It's just slowing down the throw speeds where there is a 1-7 frame difference in hit frame ends up making it useless. Other games typically have all their throw speeds the same.

Hmm, it only took me 3 yrs to find out DOA "has" Fuzzy Guarding.. I wish I could have stumbled across this sooner. Then again, "oh well I guess."

I may consider getting it now xD



Well I guess the point has been proven again that no fighting game is void of guessing situations? That move given to Hayabusa just shows they're picking favorites, so to speak. Just throwin' him in top tier?

Look at UMVC3 though... but I guess you depend on teams in that game.
(Although, I consider Wesker and Dante One Men armies.)

Honestly mate, I hate UMVC3 lol. As far as DOA; I doubt they're picking favorites. I mean.... It's a 4 character demo o.0?.

 

[MASTER]

Part4

MASTER

 

[MrMoon360]

Honestly mate, I hate UMVC3 lol. As far as DOA; I doubt they're picking favorites. I mean.... It's a 4 character demo o.0?.

I can't stand UMVC3 or MVC3 lol I switched to MK as soon as it came out.

 

[x Sypher x]

Part4

MASTER

Good shit Master, keep em coming

I like Hayate's new fighting stance, looks pretty neat.

 

[Berzerk!]

Throws in SC are a 50/50, but they're 17 frames on the average, which is enough time to allow you to duck on reaction. You can also buffer a throw break into your block.

I'm used to fuzzying in VF and DOA, and throws are so much slower in SC I sometimes duck, then stand up and get thrown! I also don't like how throws in SC beat attacks (Offensive Holds), but the escapability helps.

 

[DrDogg]

Well I guess the point has been proven again that no fighting game is void of guessing situations?

There's a difference between a fighting game having a situation that requires a guess, and DOA where guessing is often the best strategy.

Why would i break down a video, that had already been broken down (here) already? o__O. (I have considered it still but seeing it already broken down didnt seem that it was as necessary)

I don't know. Maybe for the same reason you're breaking down DOA 4.2 trailers... so your fans can hear you talk for an hour?

I'm used to fuzzying in VF and DOA, and throws are so much slower in SC I sometimes duck, then stand up and get thrown! I also don't like how throws in SC beat attacks (Offensive Holds), but the escapability helps.

They're not offensive holds. They only beat attacks if the frames roll that way. Throws work like a 17-frame, high attack. If a 17-frame attack would connect, so will the throw in this instance. But if a 17-frame, high attack would get interrupted, a throw will too.

 

[MrMoon360]

There's a difference between a fighting game having a situation that requires a guess, and DOA where guessing is often the best strategy.

What dictates a fighter from being limited to guessing, rather than actual strategy?
A move is too fast to see coming? Incapable of possible escape?
That's not the game's fault if there is ability. A counter in DOA does come out in 0 frames.

Maybe its a level of expertise that frustrates an individual. (such as yourself, perhaps? I don't know)

 

[DrDogg]

What dictates a fighter from being limited to guessing, rather than actual strategy?
A move is too fast to see coming? Incapable of possible escape? That's not the game's fault. A counter in DOA does come out in 0 frames.
Maybe its a level of expertise that frustrates an individual. (such as yourself, perhaps? I don't know)

Let's look at SC5 compared to DOA4.

In DOA4 your best option on defense is almost always to guess a counter. If you don't counter out of stun you're going to eat a lot of damage, so since you're basically forced to counter, you're going to guess which counter to use so you can hopefully get damage/evade an attack. On offense, you're forced to guess what counter the opponent will use so you can hopefully avoid it, or simply guess that a counter will come and try to throw it on reaction.

In SC5, you guess which throw to break, but you never have to guess if a throw is coming. This is a guess based on player preference and not forced. You can duck throws on reaction or use an attack that crushes quickly. In both instances, you don't have to guess at all.

Another SC5 example is that I can run my offense completely and never have to guess anything. I can play strictly by the frames if I want to. I don't have to guess to win, and when I lose I don't feel as though I lost because I guessed wrong.

 

[MrMoon360]

Let's look at SC5 compared to DOA4.

In DOA4 your best option on defense is almost always to guess a counter. If you don't counter out of stun you're going to eat a lot of damage, so since you're basically forced to counter, you're going to guess which counter to use so you can hopefully get damage/evade an attack. On offense, you're forced to guess what counter the opponent will use so you can hopefully avoid it, or simply guess that a counter will come and try to throw it on reaction.

In SC5, you guess which throw to break, but you never have to guess if a throw is coming. This is a guess based on player preference and not forced. You can duck throws on reaction or use an attack that crushes quickly. In both instances, you don't have to guess at all.

Another SC5 example is that I can run my offense completely and never have to guess anything. I can play strictly by the frames if I want to. I don't have to guess to win, and when I lose I don't feel as though I lost because I guessed wrong.

Thanks for explaining that to me.

But I still think the whole guess thing is a real bash based off preference. The stun threshold would limit how many times you can be hit before you fall. There's only a certain amount of moves that will start a juggle/launch with each character. They usually have frames you can see coming. Not many each time, but its certainly not 0. That takes getting to know your opponent just like any other fighter.

It seems the frustration of the game carries over from Ninja Gaiden. That difficulty. That's why that game isn't popular mainstream as well.

 

[Berzerk!]

Let's look at SC5 compared to DOA4.

In DOA4 your best option on defense is almost always to guess a counter. If you don't counter out of stun you're going to eat a lot of damage, so since you're basically forced to counter, you're going to guess which counter to use so you can hopefully get damage/evade an attack. On offense, you're forced to guess what counter the opponent will use so you can hopefully avoid it, or simply guess that a counter will come and try to throw it on reaction.

In SC5, you guess which throw to break, but you never have to guess if a throw is coming. This is a guess based on player preference and not forced. You can duck throws on reaction or use an attack that crushes quickly. In both instances, you don't have to guess at all.

Another SC5 example is that I can run my offense completely and never have to guess anything. I can play strictly by the frames if I want to. I don't have to guess to win, and when I lose I don't feel as though I lost because I guessed wrong.

Isn't it a bit misleading to make a general statement on defense and then describe a situation that's specifically after being hit in DOA, then talk about throw breaks in SC5?

Defense is more varied than the moment you get hit, an if you're going to talk about getting hit, lets put throws to one side.

In DOA, including 4, there are tons of defensive options but if you want to talk about what happens after you get hit, and that alone, then that's fine. For good or ill, DOA has more options here than most games; Counter, Slow Escape (Struggle), then if you escape/recover before the next hit you go back to the myriad options - guard, spacing, ducking, attacking first etc.

In SC you just get hit (that may be considered better) by true combos and you can air control if juggled, or standup or roll on the ground.

Pretty similar. You can even stand up and GI if taking wakeup pressure (Nightmare can wakeup Super which has GI built in... crazy).

I think the overall picture of defensive options (usually the stuff you do before being hit or while under pressure of being hit) is quite varied in either case, but what you're talking about is the reliability of the attacker's options and fair enough.

Just clearing up what is being parceled out of the discussion.