DOA5LR Dragon Guide - Jann Lee in Depth

[Darkslay]

I finally watched the guide, was pretty useful at some points but I would like to point out some little flaws here and there.



Maybe it should be mentioned that charged 4P+K will guardbreak only if the powerblow is AVAILABLE.
Listing NEGATIVE guardbreaks is useless because it's a stupid mechanic that's not even supposed to exist lol.

5:50 "Meaning these strings cannot be held or blocked." I would've added "on normal hit".

14:14 -> 14:24 the best followup after that kind of stun is a Dragon Kick bruh, great damage, rarely ever misses, easy execution. For the best damage there's running P Close Hit which is harder to do but does even more damage.

18:53 why is that guaranteed? I don't think it is
19:18 Dragon Kick can actually be avoided by going low
I think the rest isn't guaranteed either if the opponent Stagger Escapes pretty fast

There's no mention of midP & highK Hold setups! Just to mention one, after an Hi-Counter midP hold I like to do H+K 6P+K... BANG, Critical Burst that can only be escaped by Stagger Escaping at fastest.

In the "beating wakeup kicks" section (at 43:30) there's no mention of using 1P+K6K, my personal favorite and imo the best one!

In the stage combos section, there's nothing about Scramble's low floor.



Btw, you wrote "Heavy Kick/Punch" instead of "Strong Kick/Punch" lul. And PP6P or PK becoming natural combos if the spacing is correct, omg neat.

Thanks for the feedback, i appreciate you taking your time to watch the entire thing, now to address your points.

- There's already visual representation for 4P+K, its the only GB done with PB on and that is pretty basic knowledge, since its an universal thing. While i totally agree with you on that one, the game denotes them as GBs, so i couldn't miss them.

- Not entirely true my friend, PPP is a NC regardless of NH or CH, P6P is the same, PP6P on NH is a true NC on CH it can be blocked but not held and it stuns, PK can be blocked on NH and on CH it becomes a true NC, 4KK is only a NC on CH, DS 6P+K is a NC regardless of hit level. 4PPP does launch on CH though.

- I hope you're joking on that one bruh, P2PK does one more point of damage than the DK, and if we're talking about damage, 4PPP is where its at, running P doesn't come close to 4PPP.

- After the Stun blowout the following attack can only be held in fastest Critical Hold, but even then, the string can be delayed.

- DK isn't unfortunately, it can only be ducked, the rest needs timing but it is possible, thanks to it taking 4 frames to turn around from BT.

- I actually have something planned for that but i don't want to spoil it. there's plenty of setups from those holds, H+K can be held btw. XD

- There's no difference from a 66K to a DS 6K other than a knockback buff, personal preference really. And i beg to differ, there's many more damaging options and a lot of stuns, hence why i use 1P+K DS P+K instead, the best one imo is 236T, 70 possible points of damage for free is a pretty sweet deal.

- The lower Scramble combo is already known to be 4PPP > Car crash > 6H+K 6PK and less on heavies, there's some stuff with Alpha but i just found it unnecessary tbh.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

- Not entirely true my friend, PPP is a NC regardless of NH or CH, P6P is the same, PP6P on NH is a true NC on CH it can be blocked but not held and it stuns, PK can be blocked on NH and on CH it becomes a true NC, 4KK is only a NC on CH, DS 6P+K is a NC regardless of hit level. 4PPP does launch on CH though.

shiiiiiet u right

These P6P, PP6P, PK, 4KK techs... my mind is blown. Thanks for going more in-depth.

- I hope you're joking on that one bruh, P2PK does one more point of damage than the DK, and if we're talking about damage, 4PPP is where its at, running P doesn't come close to 4PPP.

If 1 single point of damage is the tradeoff for a move way that is so much easier to execute, I'll choose the Dragon Kick any day bruh. About 4PPP... I can't land that. At all, not even VS Alpha-152. The only time I could juggle it successfully was when I used an invisible wall, but it's useless in that situation since a Close Hit Dragon Kick hurts more. How to land it? lol

- DK isn't unfortunately, it can only be ducked, the rest needs timing but it is possible, thanks to it taking 4 frames to turn around from BT.

The Stagger Escape from that stun makes anything so hard to land because of the distance! I can't even combo 66K lol.

H+K can be held btw. XD

Shit. I just tried to make the COM midK hold from the COM OPTIONS instead of the COM REACTION, and it got held, you're right... DOA5 is starting to piss me off with these subtle changes wtf, I don't think it was ever possible to hold during the hitstun "generated" by an OH/throw, BUT you can't Stagger Escape that... well fuck it I'll use H+K anyway.

- There's no difference from a 66K to a DS 6K other than a knockback buff, personal preference really. And i beg to differ, there's many more damaging options and a lot of stuns, hence why i use 1P+K DS P+K instead, the best one imo is 236T, 70 possible points of damage for free is a pretty sweet deal.

I disagree and will do 1P+K DS 6K all day, now let's fight about it m8.

The opponent can wake up in 5 different directions (forward, backward, up, down, neutral) and then do 2 different wakeup kicks, mid and low (excluding special wakeups). That's way too unpredictable, forget your fancy combos or epic throws that require legendary spacing or timing and use the safest option instead (which is not even guaranteed to work).
An overall excellent and reliable "wakeup kick punisher" imo is a mid strike with great range. Such as the all-time badass 66K, which also happens to be pretty damn safe considering its range.

The advantages of that move used inside DS versus outside DS don't end with the increased knockback (lol I didn't even notice it until now, good to know). The taunt animation on successful hit doesn't play so you can keep pressuring, and if it gets blocked it's 1 frame safer. You also get potential guaranteed environmental damage using 66K/DS 6K. I would argue that DS 6K means easier execution compared to spacing yourself manually and then doing 66K (accidental 46K or 236K may happen, and the actual input is just 6K instead of 66K).

But the best part is the 1P+K. As far as I know, excluding the lame Rapid Step, 1P+K is the best way to travel backwards for a medium distance with Jann Lee, very useful for whiff punishing both wakeup kicks indeed. And if you get hit out of 1P+K, you don't get Counter Hit and still gain much distance.

i just found it unnecessary tbh.

Dude I know almost nothing about dangerzone combos, I just Dragon Kick when I can, so maybe it would've been useful to me lol.

 

[Darkslay]

Shiiiiiet it didn't even cross my mind to double-check those! I just remembered how Natural Combos worked in previous DOA's (mostly just on Normal Hit) and thought the same applied to DOA5, but old DOA's didn't have unholdables and so many stuns that delay your holds I guess.

These P6P, PP6P, PK, 4KK techs... my mind is blown. Thanks for going more in-depth.

A LOT has changed in DOA5 dawg, trust me, i skipped most of DOA4 lol, but at least it makes all this cool tech possible.

If 1 single point of damage is the tradeoff for a move way that is so much easier to execute, I'll choose the Dragon Kick any day bruh. About 4PPP... I can't land that. At all, not even VS Alpha-152. The only time I could juggle it successfully was when I used an invisible wall, but it's useless in that situation since a Close Hit Dragon Kick hurts more. How to land it? lol

You can't just run up and do P2PK? Come on man, if you can land P in close hit, that should be no problem. DK is hype tho, i'll give you that lol. There's a trick to it, you can only land 4PPP if you land H+K at point blank first, its a pretty hardcore technique sure, but hey, i main the character so i gotta DO IT!! And you you can land 246P in close hit at an invisible wall dawg, that's in video too!! LOL.

I disagree and will do 1P+K DS 6K all day, now let's fight about it m8.

The opponent can wake up in 5 different directions (forward, backward, up, down, neutral) and then do 2 different wakeup kicks, mid and low (excluding special wakeups). That's way too unpredictable, forget your fancy combos or epic throws that require legendary spacing or timing and use the safest option instead (which is not even guaranteed to work).
An overall excellent and reliable "wakeup kick punisher" imo is a mid strike with great range. Such as the all-time badass 66K, which also happens to be pretty damn safe considering its range.

The advantages of that move used inside DS versus outside DS don't end with the increased knockback (lol I didn't even notice it until now, good to know). The taunt animation on successful hit doesn't play so you can keep pressuring, and if it gets blocked it's 1 frame safer. You also get potential guaranteed environmental damage using 66K/DS 6K. I would argue that DS 6K means easier execution compared to spacing yourself manually and then doing 66K (accidental 46K or 236K may happen, and the actual input is just 6K instead of 66K).

But the best part is the 1P+K. As far as I know, excluding the lame Rapid Step, 1P+K is the best way to travel backwards for a medium distance with Jann Lee, very useful for whiff punishing both wakeup kicks indeed. And if you get hit out of 1P+K, you don't get Counter Hit and still gained much distance.

I'll fite u m8.

First let me clarify, i love 6KK, i lost my fucking mind when he got it in DOA3 just because of how sick it looked, so i don't hate the move, at all. But people really miss out on a lot of his options because of stuff like that, positioning yourself for wake up kicks isn't as scary as you might think, you just have to keep moving, static and lateral mid kicks aren't different from each other, but if you use a static move like 1P+K, you'll go of axis and get screwed over, remember that back getups don't have wakeup kicks, so its free advantage, now mid wakeup kicks recover in 18 frames, and Lee's 236T is 17 frames, its like literally a wake up punisher as you say lol, now i use 1P+K DS 6K don't get me wrong, but i also use his other options to show how good Lee's wake up game can be.

On a side note, DS 6K is really good, like, it bufs the move by a lot, it increases reach, knock back, safety and removes the recovery frames, that's some good shit.

Dude I know almost nothing about dangerzone combos, I just Dragon Kick when I can, it would've been useful to me lol.

Aww damn, sorry about that then, i can fetch you some lower scramble combo vids if you want lol.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

fuck yer point blank H+K m8 I'll stick to my Dragon Kick.

i main the character so i gotta DO IT!!

no, u just mad

Aww damn, sorry about that then, i can fetch you some lower scramble combo vids if you want lol.

No problem, I can't time danger zone combos for shit anyway, the strict timing feels like the developers forgot about the 10-frames-long input buffer that DOA has.

 

[Lulu]

fu
No problem, I can't time danger zone combos for shit anyway, the strict timing feels like the developers forgot about the 10-frames-long input buffer that DOA has.

Thats how short it is ?

It explains alot

 

[WAZAAAAA]

Thats how short it is ?

It explains alot

10 frame is big, the biggest leniency out of any other fighting game that I know of lol

 

[Lulu]

10 frame is big, the biggest leniency out of any other fighting game that I know of lol

Virtua Fighter 5's one feels noticeable much longer.... and alot more consistent.

The one in DoA doesn't even feel consistent... let alone long. Some moves seem to have much shorter "Input Detection Windows" (which is what I assume Team Ninja would call it) and others seem way too lenient. To give you an example of what I'm talking about try comparing Brad Wong's with Jacky's one is way too Lenient and the other is not Lenient enough.

The only Consistent Leniency across the Entire Roster are strikes that have this directional input: . And for a scrub like me.... its still way too Short . The Throws are my Sweet Spot.... its forgiving enough for me to perform but not so lenient as to get mixed up with Throws..... it aswell is also consistent across any characters that have Throws.

And thats a summary of my experience with DoA's inputs.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

Virtua Fighter 5's one feels noticeable much longer.... and alot more consistent.

The one in DoA doesn't even feel consistent... let alone long. Some moves seem to have much shorter "Input Detection Windows" (which is what I assume Team Ninja would call it) and others seem way too lenient. To give you an example of what I'm talking about try comparing Brad Wong's with Jacky's one is way too Lenient and the other is not Lenient enough.

The only Consistent Leniency across the Entire Roster are strikes that have this directional input: . And for a scrub like me.... its still way too Short . The Throws are my Sweet Spot.... its forgiving enough for me to perform but not so lenient as to get mixed up with Throws..... it aswell is also consistent across any characters that have Throws.

And thats a summary of my experience with DoA's inputs.

It seems like Virtua Fighter uses a 10 frame long input buffer too http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/controls/#the-input-buffer

Can't guarantee anything about its "consistency" in DOA though.

 

[Lulu]

It seems like Virtua Fighter uses a 10 frame long input buffer too http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/controls/#the-input-buffer

Can't guarantee anything about its "consistency" in DOA though.

Maybe its a tiny Glitch.

 

[Lulu]

@Darkslay
I wasn't able to keep my promise to watch your Dragon Guide first (I was curious about Christie) which I regret because I've seen it multiple times now (twice) and theres so much information on it.......

I was wondering maybe if you planning on doing a Live Q & A using the Dragon guide as reference on twitch or something..... because that would be awesome.

Most people look down on getting their hands held..... I, myself, Love handholding !

 

[Darkslay]

@Darkslay
I wasn't able to keep my promise to watch your Dragon Guide first (I was curious about Christie) which I regret because I've seen it multiple times now (twice) and theres so much information on it.......

I was wondering maybe if you planning on doing a Live Q & A using the Dragon guide as reference on twitch or something..... because that would be awesome.

Most people look down on getting their hands held..... I, myself, Love handholding !

That's ok man.
And yes, i do plan to make a character stream for Jann Lee and go over some some of the stuff in the guide in more detail, however i'm not able to stream at the moment, as soon as i get a next gen console i'll set up a date for the stream, thanks for the interest.

 

[Lulu]

That's ok man.
And yes, i do plan to make a character stream for Jann Lee and go over some some of the stuff in the guide in more detail, however i'm not able to stream at the moment, as soon as i get a next gen console i'll set up a date for the stream, thanks for the interest.

No.... thank you for being interesting.

 

[Darkslay]

Here are the first 3 installments of the Dragon Guide Followups, thanks for all the support, enjoy!