Easily Accessible, yet Hard to Master!

[Rikuto]

wait a sec, bayman doesnt do parry's, does he?

The parry system is just as risky as using the hold system. Miss and its open season. Both of us know the pro's will man whore any opportunity that is presented before us, espically that kind of opportunity.

The thing is though, i dont see many folks use the parry system. At least not some of the folks i've ran into in the past. I main ayane as most folks know but i play eliot as a secondary. He has parry's but i never see a reason to use them. Back when i first started workin eliot did i try the parry system but you need to be able to keep the stun going and launch them. Im not even sure if they can counter out of stun after said opponent has been parried.

You don't see many folks winning with Bayman either.

That's because people spend too much time looking at paper stats and don't spend any time dissecting the human brain and its fallacies.

If you're gonna play DOA 4 throw that paper shit out the window, its useless.

If you're going to play a better version, then by all means, take such things into account.

 

[Red dragon]

trust me, i tried looking at frame data and stats and etc, i dont have that kind of time to sit down and try to memorize frame data and compare it to other characters and whatnaught. I threw out the paperwork a long time ago.

It depends on who your talking about. Gotta remember a lot of noobs use to try and run with the ninjas because they thought the ninjas were the shizznit characters to use back then. Thats not the case now, espically with ayane.

Every character has its ups and downs. I knew this after i learned ayane. But i think it depends on the player. Honestly, i love speed characters. It would be a pain in the ass for me to try to use a powerhouse character like bayman or spartan. Thats more player preference than anything.

I say that if you got time for paperwork, look at it and study it. But when i was training students back in the days of doa2u and doa4, I never tried making them stare at paperwork. I made them go into sparring mode and i beat the hell out of them a bunch of times, but that is my tatic of traning rookies and it worked for me. I also had them study their character. I do not know one person who memorizes or uses every move in a characters chart. Not one person.

 

[Rikuto]

I do.

Although some moves are so ridiculously bad that I only spare them on scrubs for the lolfactor.

Actually I think that's a major problem. If a person can't even remember their own characters movelist they shouldn't be playing people.

 

[Red dragon]

My point is i dont think that it is necessary to remember every single move in said characters movelist.

You build your style based on key moves that you use in a fight. You can play against the same character that you are using but it can feel like your fighting someone else because their style is completely different than yours. I know enough about my character to use her well. Every character has its ups and downs, the real challenge is hiding your characters weaknesses and your fighting style's weak points and abusing your opponents weak spots and openings like its open season.

People can still play other people. Espically if you a beginner, cpu sparring and looking over a movelist will only do so much. To truly get better at a game, you need to play other people, even if online isnt the best way to play, its the only way to play for most folks.

I agree that most beginners and amateur fighters try to play people without thinking, hence why they get their ass whooped on a regular basis. I think they need to do some research before they step into a fight with another person.

 

[Rikuto]

My point is i dont think that it is necessary to remember every single move in said characters movelist.

Well, my point is... you do! This is a mixup based game, you need to have every option at your disposal. Even the terrible options.

People can still play other people. Espically if you a beginner, cpu sparring and looking over a movelist will only do so much. To truly get better at a game, you need to play other people, even if online isnt the best way to play, its the only way to play for most folks.

People can vote for the marijuana reform party as well, doesn't make it a good idea. Every day a person should be running through exercise mode first thing until they know everything their character has by heart. in fact they should make it a point to go out of their way to evaluate moves they are NOT using, and ask themselves if there is anything they can do to make that move valuable.

To do anything less to force yourself into a prison of limited ability and knowledge.

 

[Red dragon]

it may be a mixup game, does not mean you mix up every move in said character's movelist. I've seen moves that are completely useless. In what part of a fight do you need to taunt? In what part of a fight would you need to use a move that has a very high chance of putting you at a disadvantage?

Its like i said earlier, cpu sparring and exercise mode will only do so much. Fighting human opponents is an evaluation to the training and studying that they have done offline. Im not saying dont use exercise mode, im not saying dont use cpu sparring and im not saying to play human opponents only. Im saying all fighters need both actual human opponents either online or offline and movelists and exercise mode. One for training and the other for the purpose of evaluating one's skill.

 

[Rikuto]

I've seen moves that are completely useless.

Yes, they do exist. They are small in number, but they do exist. In the training of a player however, you cannot and will not make that assumption until you have studied absolutely every possible use for it.

In what part of a fight do you need to taunt?

This is very low level, primative thinking you have adopted Dragon.

Taunts serve a million uses, and they are all are situational. If a fight is going in your favor and you taunt in the middle of it, it can diminish most of his morale. If you continually taunt in an annoying manner, your opponent will become annoyed and that disrupts his concentration on what it should be focused on. It can provoke a turtle to break his pattern and attack, as well.

In what part of a fight would you need to use a move that has a very high chance of putting you at a disadvantage?

Every time you do any move, because just about every single move in DOA 4 puts you at a disadvantage.

Fighting human opponents is an evaluation to the training and studying that they have done offline.

If I was your student I wouldn't be able to evaluate anything, because you just told me not to memorize my own movelist. There was no studying to be done.

That said, do not misunderstand me. Human opponents are the only opponents that matter. The CPU is useless as an opponent, the only purpose it serves is as a dummy for you yourself to study the movelist.

But playing against humans before you even understand your own movelist is not an exercise in development, it is an exercise in boredom.

 

[Red dragon]

so you would taunt your opponent til they rage quit basically. Gotta remember that most amateur fighters are looking for good fights, not an asshole who wants to make people leave because their opponent would rather treat them like they did your sister in her ass or something like that. maybe we got different morals when fighting amateurs, but thats a whole different debate entirely.

I have no idea about frame data. Like i stated, i dont have that kind of time anymore to sit down all day and attempt to understand framerates. Im just going to bow my head and agree about doa4's moves there.

Im not saying dont memorize the movelist. Im saying dont memorize the moves you dont need. It also depends on who you play. A lot of the doa vets are stubborn as hell and wont take in students anymore. Thats probably why you think playing online as a beginner is boring. Some folks play casual online even though they suck, some folks are looking for tips from vets. If the vets are stubborn and still clinging onto the past like its still here, then i can understand why u think its boring.

My thoughts are not primitive, its just my honest opinion. I may be wrong, i may not. Im just speaking my mind here.

 

[Raansu]

If the dude is rage quitting then that means he was getting a good fight. Taunting or not, he is losing, and if he wants a good fight, then he will stay and fight until he learns something. Rage quitting means he doesn't want a good fight and just wants an easy win.

 

[Rikuto]

so you would taunt your opponent til they rage quit basically. Gotta remember that most amateur fighters are looking for good fights, not an asshole who wants to make people leave because their opponent would rather treat them like they did your sister in her ass or something like that. maybe we got different morals when fighting amateurs, but thats a whole different debate entirely.

I'm a tournament player. If someones gonna rage quit a tournament, that's free money. You also are ignoring the practical uses, taunts don't have to be spammed. They can be used sparingly and can actually inflict even greater psychological damage when used correctly.

You are limiting yourself by choice here by thinking something is dishonorable, that is scrub mentality at its most evident. Before you take that as an insult we all have it to some degree in certain things, but the idea is to root it out when we discover it. That is the only way to progress.

I have no idea about frame data. Like i stated, i dont have that kind of time anymore to sit down all day and attempt to understand framerates. Im just going to bow my head and agree about doa4's moves there.

Took me fifteen minutes to figure it out and find practical uses for it. You're gonna spend days and days training young newbloods but you can't take a few minutes to learn something of actual value? The idea that frame data is overcomplicated is a major roadblock to a new player. It's neither daunting nor time consuming unless you make it a point to pour over it every day in the vain hope you may discover something you missed.

This is another example of forcefully limiting yourself for no reason other then a self-imposed, mental roadblock.

Im not saying dont memorize the movelist. Im saying dont memorize the moves you dont need.

Limiting yourself is limiting yourself. You may not ever use it, but then maybe you will find that fringe situation where its actually useful. By following through with your thought process, you are only removing that option from the table. That does not help anyone.

My thoughts are not primitive, its just my honest opinion. I may be wrong, i may not. Im just speaking my mind here.

Your intentions are good, but your school of thought is grossly damaged. You are severely hindered by self imposed constructs that keep you from learning. As for helping other players, thats what this website is for. I'll help those who come here, but I can't help a mind that refuses to learn.

 

[Red dragon]

i stand corrected.