Hitomi Q&A

UncleBiscuits79

Active Member
It gives you 5 frame advantage. Good follow ups I like is :6::F:, which again gives you 10 frame (which is basically the same situation. Another one is :6::P::K::2::K:, which again leave you at 5 FA, also you have :6::K::2::K:, which also give you 5 FA (see a pattern here? :)). :2_::K::K: also gives you 6 FA. You can also cancel any of these by pressing :h: in between and then go for a :6::F:.

Basically Hitomi is incredible strong once on the frame advantage, where you got so many options. One of her weaknesses is that she is initially quite slow with the 13 frame mids, and what not, but a 4 frame advantage puts her ahead in any of the categories (H, M:P:, M:K:, or L) with plenty of options for delaying and free canceling into throws.
It basically gives you a potential for a never ending string of damage where you doesn't even ground them for a reset.


Good stuff Crext. So you are using H and F as if they are two different things. I thought both meant the block button. can you clarify please? If I had to guess, does F mean H+K?
 

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
I have noticed this too. It seems that Hitomi has more options in combos and generally more mixups, while Ein seems to be total brute strength. I am not even that good yet, but Ein is one character I can beat more often online, since he plays very similarly to Hitomi.
Ein and Hitomi are similar because after DOA2 Ein remembered he was Hayate and there was no longer any Karate type characters, so they made Hitomi to be his "replacement" and in DOA3 and DOA2U she actually plays very much like Ein.

Hitomi was also actually Ein's karate training partner so they go way back together, it's also hinted that she has romantic feelings for Him and Hayate.

However, in 5U Ein and 'Tomi-Chan have completely different move sets and play styles, Ein is still pretty much his DOA3/4 self with 2 new moves while Hitomi has had various fake outs and more mix ups added to her.

Ein is also low tier while Hitomi is Mid/Mid-High (not too sure though) so she's much faster than him and can beat him to the punch so to speak that's how any Hitomi who knows they're doing can destroy most average Eins.

They also have completely different playstyles, Ein is more of a mid/long range keep away character who will punish your slightest mistakes with brutal attacks like 46P, 33T and 6P+K if they're feeling lucky while Hitomi seems like she can be a little more aggresive although Ein's Zoning can work with her, she's not great at it.
 

Crext

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Good stuff Crext. So you are using H and F as if they are two different things. I thought both meant the block button. can you clarify please? If I had to guess, does F mean H+K?

:F: is throw. I guess it would be the same as :H+P: if I don't misremember (I never use that input to throw myself). It is a bit messed up as it originally was a "3 button game" (still is), but it has become 4 lately with the Playstations and stuff.

Ein is also low tier while Hitomi is Mid/Mid-High (not too sure though) so she's much faster than him and can beat him to the punch so to speak that's how any Hitomi who knows they're doing can destroy most average Eins.

They also have completely different playstyles, Ein is more of a mid/long range keep away character who will punish your slightest mistakes with brutal attacks like 46P, 33T and 6P+K if they're feeling lucky while Hitomi seems like she can be a little more aggresive although Ein's Zoning can work with her, she's not great at it.

I think you are correct about them having different playstyles.

That said I must disagree in the part about importance of speed, UpSideDownGRUNT.

You see, Hitomi's jab is 10 frames, her mid is 13 both kick and punch, and her low punch is 14 frames and gives 1 FA. That is her fastest moves and Ein's are EXACTLY the same.

However, unlike Ein, Hitomi has good close combat. She is a monster at frame advantage. Ein's goal is just to get lvl 1 crit, launch and knock you away to restart for more spacing damage. More specifically Hitomi has a punchparry which takes away many of his close up options, and bests him through better mix ups and pressure game.

Ein is better at spacing, however Hitomi beats him all in all because she also has great spacing.

So ye, Hitomi's close up game is great, but against Ein it is insane. Also she can defend herself quite well in the zone game. In total I'd say the match-up is in her favor. ;)
 
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Saber

Well-Known Member
Yeah, we use :F: (Free) as the T command because there isn't an actual T command smiley yet lol.
We don't use :F: as the T command. There actually was a T smiley, but for some reason it was removed, and reverted to :T: , which is the actual command for throws.

I prefer T though since it's just easier, but moving on.

They don't really play that much different, but Hitomi does better close up. They both can stun launch (Ein's better), they both can whiff punish (Ein's better), their wall games are insane (both are even in this aspect), Hitomi can apply pressure with delayable strings and has better in-string mixups than Ein.

However, Hitomi can't get in consistent any frame advantage besides 2P and 6T. Her punch parry is much worse than Leifang's Unshu, and her in-string lows are sucky because on block, it's -17. NEGATIVE EFFING 17. And they're easy to react to, and they can be beaten out by a 2P if they're delayed since they're really slow.

Saying Hitomi can get constant frame advantage isn't quite true because they're not frame traps. Nothing Hitomi has besides 66H+K and her charge moves are + on block, and she doesn't have an OH so she can't frame trap after punch parry and 6T.

Hitomi's got pretty lousy crushes too. Basically, Hitomi's neutral game is suck. Better than Ein, at least.
 

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
I thought they did because every time I pick up Hitomi and try playing her like I do Ein I get wrecked.

Really, my main flaw with Hitomi is that I don't know what I'm doing with her, I can't play her like I do Ein because it just gets me destroyed, but I can't play her aggressively either because I don't know what to do and get myself punished.
 

Crext

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
We don't use :F: as the T command. There actually was a T smiley, but for some reason it was removed, and reverted to :H+P: , which is the actual command for throws.

I prefer T though since it's just easier, but moving on.

They don't really play that much different, but Hitomi does better close up. They both can stun launch (Ein's better), they both can whiff punish (Ein's better), their wall games are insane (both are even in this aspect), Hitomi can apply pressure with delayable strings and has better in-string mixups than Ein.

However, Hitomi can't get in consistent any frame advantage besides 2P and 6T. Her punch parry is much worse than Leifang's Unshu, and her in-string lows are sucky because on block, it's -17. NEGATIVE EFFING 17. And they're easy to react to, and they can be beaten out by a 2P if they're delayed since they're really slow.

Saying Hitomi can get constant frame advantage isn't quite true because they're not frame traps. Nothing Hitomi has besides 66H+K and her charge moves are + on block, and she doesn't have an OH so she can't frame trap after punch parry and 6T.

Hitomi's got pretty lousy crushes too. Basically, Hitomi's neutral game is suck. Better than Ein, at least.

Well, the :F: is widely used as the throw input button. I am just guessing it has something to do with it being "logically" as :h: :P: :K: is obvious, where as throw is blue in-game, and is mapped to the blue X on the PS (I don't know for xbox). :H+P: just looks messy in comparison.
I also think this will continue to be the case until we get a real icon for it, as having a blue free icon and not a throw icon is just silly. Maybe someone should speak to the admins about it.

Anyways, her lows are only easy to react to if you know the behavior pattern down to 2-3 alternatives and you are used to seeing her use it. Generally this is against people who don't delay or free cancel, or with limited mix ups. The more mix ups you got, the higher the reaction time will become, and 20 frames suddenly is very difficult to react to (impossible). I wrote a 1 page paper on this somewhere, and don't feel like going over it again as it is human nature and science more than game theory and it's just how your brain functions. Anyways, one of the weaknesses of that particular move (:6::K::2::K:) is that the "only" alternative is to do a :6::K::K::K:, where the second kick is high. Then if you do a crouch block, you got the (reaction)time to get back up for the mid kick block and throw punish. A really high level play would then be to free cancel the second kick into low frame attack or throw as one is "waiting" for the last kick. That said this would only work against really good people, as for most it is better to just delay the last kick and you get the hit every time (really, try it, you will hit 90% of the time). Changing up :6::P::K::2::K: into :6::P: (delayed) :4::P: delayed :P: and :6::P:(:4::P:):h: :6::F: or :6::P: (:h: :6::P:) :h: :6::P: almost always hit. This is because statistically the odds are always in your favor (66% or better vs most people).

Against good people I usually do (in the middle of a hectic moment) :6::P::K::2::K: into :6::K::2::K: and :6::P: delay :K: (if I hit, I ground them with :K::K: and force tech :2::H+K: into :6::6::K: string, if I hit block I do :2::K: followed by :6::P::h: :6::F:. If I've never met the person before this always works.

The greatest tool is to "mix it up". You need to confuse their brain and make it "false teaching", upon their behavior pattern becomes "default" (most people tend to hold a lot when they get into this state). When they see 2 quick :2::K: enders they "learn" to look for it the next time, putting them off their game. The 13 frame :6::P: is impossible to react to, as is the 13 frame :6::K: (unless you know it is coming, which you won't vs a new opponent). :6::P::K: is 14 frames and with a lot of alternatives, you can't react to this, only guess it. What you could react to in theory is the low :K:, but this is only if you got 2 options to pick from. With delay and free cancel you got 3 options, making that unlikely. Also if you trick them into favoring that a low kick is coming they're more exposed to everything else, and their reaction time to that becomes worse.

HOWEVER, you can still play the statistically likely to win game, upon where you win. After the :6::K:, you can crouch block :2::P:. If you do and hit it is because you guessed they'd either free cancel or delay make it 66% in your favor, where the punishment for getting hit isn't that great either.

Anyways, if you want to see it practically what I am talking about, go to 14:55 in this video


As you can see, if you confuse them enough, you can get away with almost everything. You can :2::3::6::P: into block, not get punished and even(!) follow up, you can end a :4::P::P::P: without getting punished, you can do so ridiculously much if you manage to vary your game enough because their brain wouldn't be able to follow a 18 frame reaction pattern. This is (I assume) the reason when you see Lopedo, Master, Xcal, etc. don't throw punish their opponent, it is because the opponent has shown a great enough variety and freshness of tech that their brain won't have that 18 frame reaction time focus.
 

UncleBiscuits79

Active Member
Ok, another Hitomi question. So one thing I like to use for a quick launcher is 9k. I find it good to use as an alternative launch of 4kk or 9pk or 33p. Problem is that it seems like a LOT of times 9k will NOT hit crouching opponents, despite it being a mid, and it drives me crazy. I especially have problems with Kasumi and Christie when they use 1p or 2p alot. Do all low punches crush mid attacks or is there something unique about Hitomi's 9k??
 
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Saber

Well-Known Member
Ok, another Hitomi question. So one thing I like to use for a quick launcher is 9k. I find it good to use as an alternative launch of 4kk or 9pk or 33k. Problem is that it seems like a LOT of times 9k will NOT hit crouching opponents, despite it being a mid, and it drives me crazy. I especially have problems with Kasumi and Christie when they use 1p or 2p alot. Do all low punches crush mid attacks or is there something unique about Hitomi's 9k??
1. Probably a wonky hitbox
2. Hitomi's 9K has low crush frames, but the active frames are so small compared to a 2P or 1P's active frames that it's not very reliable as a low crush. An important thing to keep in mind is that the jump state doesn't necessarily low crush. There's no instant tech jump frames, unlike low crushes which have instant tech crouch frames.

As a low crush, 3H+K and 8H+K are far more viable.
 

Crext

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Ok, another Hitomi question. So one thing I like to use for a quick launcher is 9k. I find it good to use as an alternative launch of 4kk or 9pk or 33k. Problem is that it seems like a LOT of times 9k will NOT hit crouching opponents, despite it being a mid, and it drives me crazy. I especially have problems with Kasumi and Christie when they use 1p or 2p alot. Do all low punches crush mid attacks or is there something unique about Hitomi's 9k??

I actually think that her :9::K: is a "jumping kick", and not a mid kick. The properties for jumping kicks are that you must hold mid to catch them, however their hitboxes are not have that of mid kicks, as Saber mentions. Personally I has always treated :9::K: as a high kick, and if it actually hit crouching state on bigger characters that would be new to me.

As an alternative you could do like Saber mentions and use :3::H+K: and try and go :3::H+K: or :2::H+K: to force tech afterwards (unless they tech roll). As for :8::H+K: it launches (bounces) on its own. However it is slow (24 frames), so unless you know they will try and hold either low, mid :P: or high (making throw a less attractive option), then I'd stay away from it as it can be reacted towards.

Another thing to consider is, unless you are at crit lvl 3, you can also use the likes of :3::K: or :6::6::K: and free cancel these into something else. :3::K::P: I think might give you a guaranteed :6::P+K: (burst) following certain deep stuns, bypassing mid-kick dilemmas completely as you can launch with anything afterwards.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
Did TN ever get around to explaining why Hitomi is 20 and still in high school? I'm trying to tweet them about it
 

UncleBiscuits79

Active Member
Did TN ever get around to explaining why Hitomi is 20 and still in high school? I'm trying to tweet them about it
LOL I don't think Hitomi or anyone else in DOA is actually in high school. Kasumi has a school outfit too, but I think she was probably too busy doing 'ninja' stuff to actually attend high school. Same thing with Ayane always spending time with Hayabusa in the Ninja Gaiden games.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
IDK, I'm just going by what the official guide said... but it just goes to show you that TN really put no thought into the 2 year time skip. I'm curious what her occupation will be in DOA6 if they ever update it. College student? Fruit stand owner?
 

UncleBiscuits79

Active Member
IDK, I'm just going by what the official guide said... but it just goes to show you that TN really put no thought into the 2 year time skip. I'm curious what her occupation will be in DOA6 if they ever update it. College student? Fruit stand owner?
I think they probably didn't update it like they wanted. I always thought that Hitomi finished her schooling and was out exploring the world. Seems like the main point of hitomi's character was to find her own path in life (DOA3 ending and DOA5 story seem to confirm this).
 

DrDam

Member
How do you deal with 12i low punchers and low punches in general?
My 3K string gets fucked every time against good people.
 

UncleBiscuits79

Active Member
How do you deal with 12i low punchers and low punches in general?
My 3K string gets fucked every time against good people.
That's the disadvantage of Hitomi. Her fastest attacks are too slow to out-strike faster ninja characters at close range. What I find works the best is to keep those characters away at the mid range by using pokes at a distance. 3k is a great poke because you can hit all the hit levels from 3kp so a good mixup tool as well. She has other good pokes too (46p, 46k, 236p or 236k)

Probably my favorite poke at distance is 6H+K. It is a little slow at i18, BUT it's great. Has good range, it's a mid, it stuns on normal hit, it's safe on block, it tracks, and it combos into a low strike that gives decent frame advantage (i think +5 or +6).

The only other thing you can do if you are forced into close combat is to hold it, or if they are really spamming low punches, you can punish them with 8H+K for a counter hit, and you get a FREE launch for an easy juggle.
 
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DrDam

Member
That's the disadvantage of Hitomi. Her fastest attacks are too slow to out-strike faster ninja characters at close range. What I find works the best is to keep those characters away at the mid range by using pokes at a distance. 3k is a great poke because you can hit all the hit levels from 3kp so a good mixup tool as well. She has other good pokes too (46p, 46k, 236p or 236k)

Probably my favorite poke at distance is 6H+K. It is a little slow at i18, BUT it's great. Has good range, it's a mid, it stuns on normal hit, it's safe on block, it tracks, and it combos into a low strike that gives decent frame advantage (i think +5 or +6).

The only other thing you can do if you are forced into close combat is to hold it, or if they are really spamming low punches, you can punish them with 8H+K for a counter hit, and you get a FREE launch for an easy juggle.
Really good info man, thanks
 

UncleBiscuits79

Active Member
Also, I would like to know if anyone has been able to work any better juggle combos than the existing ones, now that 9pk relaunches and doesn't reset. Hoping there may be a better combos out there because of it??
 

Saber

Well-Known Member
Also, I would like to know if anyone has been able to work any better juggle combos than the existing ones, now that 9pk relaunches and doesn't reset. Hoping there may be a better combos out there because of it??
It's meant for tag more. 9PK doesn't change much for single player juggles.
 
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