Holds in Critical State -- just get rid of the damn thing already?

[Matt Ponton]

You're not "manipulating" the game by leaving vital settings alone to their default. You can't change the life settings for SSF2 or MVC2, that's the way those games were made.

You balance out randomness by adding more rounds, not by changing the core system variables. That's why we suggest 3 round matches instead of the default 2 rounds since each player has a better chance to survive a "random hold".

Either way, like I said, a tournament organizer can make up whatever rules he wants but it's this site's position that the life settings be set to Normal and the number of rounds per match is three.

It really won't matter for DOA5 hopefully as they have been informed numerous times to just remove the life setting option altogether to focus only on one setting that all people will play at regardless.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Didn't they already remove the ability to change the life setting from Dimensions? That's one of the few good changes that game had. On a related note, that spreadsheet looks sweet. Have you considered ever writing up an article entitled "Why We Play on Normal?" and reference that sweet spreadsheet? That's the kind of informative content this place needs.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

Handicap in street fighter - Life gauge in DOA = same difference.

Whats the difference between prolonging a round and adding a round? More time is more time but if you decide to play on normal, round by round you're just reinforcing the notion of the skeptic whos viewing the bout that a DOA match can be ended simply by getting lucky with the X button two or three times.

I understand that its this site position and I completely respect that but I think you've damaged the reputation of DOA in the past with good intentions. The game is going to turn out the way it will and it will probably be shaped by people like you Mr. Wah and I'm fine with that - even though I know a lot of people who love DOA the way it is (Again, save for the amount of damage a counter can do and the recovery time).

I just want you to know that I disagree, that I'm special and gosh darn it, the millions and millions of rage-a-holics like me.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Didn't they already remove the ability to change the life setting from Dimensions? That's one of the few good changes that game had. On a related note, that spreadsheet looks sweet. Have you considered ever writing up an article entitled "Why We Play on Normal?" and reference that sweet spreadsheet? That's the kind of informative content this place needs.

No one's stopping you from writing it.

 

[Berzerk!]

I'm late to class, but I like these notes.

As some of you know, I play a LOT OF different fighters, tried popping in DOA4 for general purposes and it felt like the computer had a constant threat of X-Factoring Everything.

Guessing on launchers and relying on throws gets real annoying . . .

Hmm.. as much as I agree with the basic premise of the thread to tighten up hold windows and make it harder/impossible to counter in critical stun (only)... you're probably hurting your own impressions of the game by going back and playing just the AI. The guessing thing is much lower because you're playing an opponent and reads are important in all fighting games; its really fun to train and break an opponents expectations and DOA allows this side of fighters to shine.

I played the game again just recently but only against another player (offline) and its still got a lot of qualities to like over other fighting games, yes DOA4.

 

[Berzerk!]

Handicap in street fighter - Life gauge in DOA = same difference.

Whats the difference between prolonging a round and adding a round? More time is more time but if you decide to play on normal, round by round you're just reinforcing the notion of the skeptic whos viewing the bout that a DOA match can be ended simply by getting lucky with the X button two or three times.

I understand that its this site position and I completely respect that but I think you've damaged the reputation of DOA in the past with good intentions. The game is going to turn out the way it will and it will probably be shaped by people like you Mr. Wah and I'm fine with that - even though I know a lot of people who love DOA the way it is (Again, save for the amount of damage a counter can do and the recovery time).

I just want you to know that I disagree, that I'm special and gosh darn it, the millions and millions of rage-a-holics like me.

Nobody uses Handicap in Street Fighter EVER and NEVER EVER in tournaments.

Just clarifying for you.

Look at it this way. If the designers set the game to one life setting and give no option to change that, it's one less whacky variable to allow them to balance the game. Let them do it, we shouldn't have to micromanage after release.

We already have a good measure to ensure players have the opportunity to adapt and show their best skills in tournaments - 3 rounds, best 2 of 3 matches, in a double elimination bracket, is fairly standard for the 3D fighters. (SC5 and VF5 are run like this too where I play)

The difference is each new round allows each player a fresh attempt to depleting the opponent's life, and has the right life setting for the damage output balanced into the characters to make a fair shake at that goal.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

I know that the option isn't used but Street Fighter and DOA are different fighters. SF didn't require any analysis, it was play tesedt in the arcade for years before the option to re-balance was introduced in Super Turbo.

And SF also didn't have a single button on the controller that can guarantee you 35 to 40% damage either(On normal Life, on largest its more like 20 to 25).

Imagine playing a MVC2 match where everyone starts with a max gauge = Welcome to the world of DOA4 on normal.

We shouldn't have to micromanage after release. . . Its a game, its not perfect and if they give us any means what so ever to improve the play experience independent of their direct reblancing, we should be thankful and experiment with it.

I want more, not less and (without having played DOAD) I feel it was a mistake to not allow the life settings to be adjusted and I really hope we don't have that taken away in DOA5.

 

[grap3fruitman]

And SF also didn't have a single button on the controller that can guarantee you 35 to 40% damage either(On normal Life, on largest its more like 20 to 25).

You point out one of the biggest flaws of the hold but yet you defend it!

 

[Relius Starkiller]

You point out one of the biggest flaws of the hold but yet you defend it!

What the hell are you talking about?

I'm pointing out that the hold do too much damage in general but they do way too much on normal life. As I've stated, time, and time, and time, and time, and time again, I want the damage reduced, 20 to 25% is too high for me. 10 to 15% would be ideal.

Again, look at my track record, look at what I've been pushing

To quote Ken Jeong in transformers 3 "Why are you up in my shit?!"

 

[virtuaPAI]

What the hell are you talking about?

I'm pointing out that the hold do too much damage in general but they do way too much on normal life. As I've stated, time, and time, and time, and time, and time again, I want the damage reduced, 20 to 25% is too high for me. 10 to 15% would be ideal.

Again, look at my track record, look at what I've been pushing

To quote Ken Jeong in transformers 3 "Why are you up in my shit?!"

-By your track record, it would seem that the flaws that are present in Doa are fine and that we should just accept it and not try to make any fixes. Your track record shows us that we are poorly speaking of doa and not speaking the truths about its short comings. Your track record indicates that it would be fine to change the health settings to "fix holds" while skewing the overall balance of the game. Your track record tells us many things that goes against the evolution of Doa and its progression. This is why grap3 is getting the impression that he has received.

We shouldn't have to micromanage after release. . . Its a game, its not perfect and if they give us any means what so ever to improve the play experience independent of their direct reblancing, we should be thankful and experiment with it.

-What is bold and underlined is the most important. We shouldn't have to micromanage after release. Thus the importance of Team Ninja fixing many of the games problems before release!

 

[Relius Starkiller]

-By your track record, it would seem that the flaws that are present in Doa are fine and that we should just accept it and not try to make any fixes. Your track record shows us that we are poorly speaking of doa and not speaking the truths about its short comings. Your track record indicates that it would be fine to change the health settings to "fix holds" while skewing the overall balance of the game. Your track record tells us many things that goes against the evolution of Doa and its progression. This is why grap3 is getting the impression that he has received.

(*Sigh* All caps time.)

WHAT ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT!

I ALREADY SAID LOWER THE COUNTER DAMAGE, REDUCE THE COUNTER RECOVERY WINDOW!


WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT DOA4 SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLAYED ON LARGEST LIFE! YOU CAN'T TELL PEOPLE ON THE ONE HAND THAT THE COUNTERS ARE TOO POWERFUL AND THEN IGNORE THE OPTION TO HANDICAP THEM IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE! THATS CONTRIDICTING YOURSELF!

IF THE HOLDS ARE STILL TOO POWERFUL IN DOA5, WHAT, ARE WE JUST GOING TO PLAY NORMAL FOR THE SAKE OF PROPPING UP THE CREATIVE INTEGRITY OF TEAM NINJA? Brad sucks, Dan sucks, Zafina sucks, Ezio sucks. . .why the hell did we - should we - punish the rest of the roster for the short comings of the very few terrible characters?

Seriously I think "the flaws that are present in Doa are fine" - where did I ever say anything or insinuate anything of the sort!? Lowering the counter damage and reducing the recovery window are business as usual?

Cocaine is just getting cheaper and cheaper nowadays. . .

 

[Relius Starkiller]

-What is bold and underlined is the most important. We shouldn't have to micromanage after release. Thus the importance of Team Ninja fixing many of the games problems before release!

Fix em all and if they ain't fixed we playin on largest baby.

#Boots2Asses #HoganWeComin4YouNigga

 

[x Sypher x]

Didn't they already remove the ability to change the life setting from Dimensions? That's one of the few good changes that game had. On a related note, that spreadsheet looks sweet. Have you considered ever writing up an article entitled "Why We Play on Normal?" and reference that sweet spreadsheet? That's the kind of informative content this place needs.

No it's still in there. The only difference is that you are only able to do so if you host your own lobby (playing with friends), but I suppose that's obvious. Otherwise the life setting is fixed when playing random matches.

 

[Jefffcore]

WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT DOA4 SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLAYED ON LARGEST LIFE! YOU CAN'T TELL PEOPLE ON THE ONE HAND THAT THE COUNTERS ARE TOO POWERFUL AND THEN IGNORE THE OPTION TO HANDICAP THEM IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE! THATS CONTRIDICTING YOURSELF!

 

[Arnell Long]

Sucks how other fighting game Communities are talking about character match-ups and Tournament results while our fighting game doesn't even have a solid system for the characters to fight in.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Seriously I think "the flaws that are present in Doa are fine" - where did I ever say anything or insinuate anything of the sort!?

Have you read any of your own posts?

 

[Matt Ponton]

Guys, chill out, seriously. He went off topic and was merely commenting on the tournament standards made years ago in DOA4's prime.

 

[Jefffcore]

You're not "manipulating" the game by leaving vital settings alone to their default. You can't change the life settings for SSF2 or MVC2, that's the way those games were made.

You balance out randomness by adding more rounds, not by changing the core system variables. That's why we suggest 3 round matches instead of the default 2 rounds since each player has a better chance to survive a "random hold".

Either way, like I said, a tournament organizer can make up whatever rules he wants but it's this site's position that the life settings be set to Normal and the number of rounds per match is three.

It really won't matter for DOA5 hopefully as they have been informed numerous times to just remove the life setting option altogether to focus only on one setting that all people will play at regardless.

I didn't see this.

I see what you mean, but I don't want to play Normal online.

 

[Matt Ponton]

No one is forcing you.

 

[Arnell Long]

For such a small community we have so many different views of the game making it a fact that regardless of how DOA5 turns out, one half of this community will dislike it.