Characters How to know which type of character to main - Problems with Hayabusa

[RH_Stealth]

So, I've been using Hayabusa since I started played DOA5U a couple of weeks ago, and I am able to perform all of his moves online (except for having trouble with the Izuna holds). I use the Shoho Izuna often after a critical burst combo, getting around 45% damage. I can beat other beginners, but I have issues if I want to get better.

For intermediates and experts, my critical burst combos are predictable and easy to hold - even though I use multiple - and I also almost only go for critical burst combos. Whenever I try to do something else, Ryu's moves are too slow (like a low combo). I also have a habit of losing to players who are aggressive, and especially if they use fast characters like Alpha and Kasumi.

I don't yet have the skill to predict their attacks consistenly - they switch up their attacks just enough for me to be unable to hold their attacks most of the time. And whenever I just block the combo, they usually start another one before I can.

I know part of it is the fact that I'm still a beginner, but I think Hayabusa may be too slow of a character for me. Sometimes I just can't get any combos off, and whenever I do, more skilled players could defend them easily.

I'm thinking of switching my main to a character such as Rig, Jann Lee, or Jacky. Is that too quick of a decision? Right now, I feel like it might be my only option to have a chance against better opponents. Those 3 are my choices for new mains, but if there other, possibly better choices, I would consider those as well.

The expression that goes something like "A good defense, is a good offense" might be the opposite in my case. I'm too defensive right now - so I feel like if I have a character with fast strikes, it will make a good offense as well as defense because I could be able to keep pressuring them, not letting them get an attack off, like what is happening to me right now.

So, any advice on new character selection, or tips to help me overcome the obstacle that is Hayabusa's slow moves would be appreciated.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Sounds like it's just lack of matchup knowledge. Once you know what you can punish and what you can't, you'll have an easier time. If they're holding your critical burst combos, bait them and Izuna their hold. Should probably stick with him for a bit more before deciding on whether you should switch. That said, Hayabusa isn't the easiest character to play.

 

[Gurimmjaw]

I recommend getting familiar with the other characters moves. Go through the command training multiple times. Ryu Hayabusa is not an easy character to use for beginners so he may be a bit overwhelming to newcomers. If you plan on using Jann Lee I can help you with him.

Make sure you know your style and what character style would fit you. It seems like a character who has good spacing would be your ideal choice of a character though Ryu Hayabusa good at spacing but he might be a bit difficult for you to use right now since you are very new. Jann Lee is good spacing character and also if you like ninja type of characters Hayate is another good one.

 

[cip]

So if you are a beginner, I have some tips for you. First off, if your critical burst setups are too predictable, please watch the second half of my small guide:

.
The key is to use different attack heights and rotating between kicks and punches.

Also, if you get held in your critical burst setups, you need to throw more. Just delay your input and wait to see if they hold and then Izuna. Also, you might want to go for a launcher every now and then, when your opponent is in stun. Like 6KK and 4K for example. That way, you get way harder to hold because your offense is less predictable.

Playing defensively is for more experienced players. Predicting the attacks of opponents is pretty much the hardest thing in DOA. You need to know their whole movelist and have great intuition. For the most part, it helps to know some moves that are especially unsafe (Ayanes 4 H+K for example) and some moves that are + on block (guard breaks). Knowing when to counterattack when under pressure is something I struggle with, too. You can throw in some 1PKs and WR 4Ks to high crush and some sidestep Ps when you time it right.

One of the single best moves to avoid being rushed down by a beginner is 4 P+K, though. Don't overuse it, but make them fear it.

Hayabusa isn't that slow. 6K and 6P for example are good, quite quick moves. I would guess that you would have similar problems using a faster character, to be honest. I find you should always go with the character you like best, because it will keep you motivated. Don't pick a character you don't really find cool, because you think he is stronger.

 

[RH_Stealth]

@Gurimmjaw I do command training almost every time I get on DOA5U - although just with Hayabusa -, so I'm familiar with pretty much all his moves, I just don't always think of using them all in the heat of battle. And yes, I think I might like to keep using a character with good spacing, I like to keep the enemy far away so I can take a short moment to think about what I can do.

@cip I do change up my critical burst combos a bit, but I still find that better players can defend them (my main ones are ||, ||| and |||. Some changes but not enough IMO). On the subject of defence, I really admire players that are great at holds, and I practice by doing training against level 8 CPUs. Trying to get better, but I should use them less. And finally, I think liking characters you choose is important too. That's why Jann Lee and Rig are my main options if I choose to change mains.

 

[Gurimmjaw]

@Gurimmjaw I do command training almost every time I get on DOA5U - although just with Hayabusa -, so I'm familiar with pretty much all his moves, I just don't always think of using them all in the heat of battle. And yes, I think I might like to keep using a character with good spacing, I like to keep the enemy far away so I can take a short moment to think about what I can do.

Sorry if I confused you what I meant is go into command training and go over the other characters moves. It will help you a lot.

Well Ryu Hayabusa is good for doing that but also as I said before Jann Lee and Hayate.

 

[RH_Stealth]

@Gurimmjaw I have done command training with everyone once... (I should do it more) except that it's only like 6 characters because I only have the Core Fighters version at the moment.

When I did command training with Hayate, I just didn't really like his moveset. I'm not 100% sure, but I think today Alpha, Ein and Lisa are not going to be available in the core fighters version anymore - and hopefully Jann Lee will take one of their places (if they are even replacing them with 3 other fighters right now, I don't know how it works) If not Jann Lee, I'll at least have more characters to do command training with, learn their moves and how learn to defend them.

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

@cip I do change up my critical burst combos a bit, but I still find that better players can defend them (my main ones are ||, ||| and |||. Some changes but not enough IMO). On the subject of defence, I really admire players that are great at holds, and I practice by doing training against level 8 CPUs. Trying to get better, but I should use them less. And finally, I think liking characters you choose is important too. That's why Jann Lee and Rig are my main options if I choose to change mains.

The thing about Hayabusa is he's pretty unsafe and alot of his attacks are mids, this makes him VERY easy to read and punish. this is why you need to fake out CBs and go for Hi Counter(HiC) throws and delayed CB inputs so you get them.

if you're looking for some decent changes try it does about 136 damage if successful but bear in mind it's not always guaranteed so you'd have to either delay or HiC throw instead.

But relying on CBs is indeed part of your downfall it get's too predictable once a player gets used to it.

 

[Brute]

Well first off, if your CB is getting held a lot, go stun-> lift stun (either 6K or 6P+K) then 214P -> CB. The 214P SDS will guarantee the CB.
Anyway, I know it sucks doing it, but seriously you can't go for a CB every time. Use 4K, 4H+K->33P4 and 6KK as launchers mid-threshold to mix things up.
Like people said before though, what makes Hayabusa deadly is his Izunas. He has two very accessible lift stuns that create "must hold" situations since the stuns are so deep and you can get that 214P->CB initiated from one. Whether they hold high or low, you can punish either and get 120 points of free damage, which is typically more than you will be getting from finishing the threshold and getting a Shoho, which also requires more guesses. These throws should really make your opponent afraid at all times, because doing something unsafe, standing still for 1/5th of a second or holding out of turn can get hurt them big time with massive, guaranteed damage.

You're having issues with Ryu's lows because his lows suck. They really, really do suck. In general his strings are fairly linear, and his mix-ups aren't great. His lows deserve special distinction for their stupidity, though. And you are right, Ryu is fairly slow. At 10/13/14 he struggles in the neutral game, and his fastest pokes don't always give him the best pressure follow-ups.

What they said before is true: Ryu's not the most intuitive or easy-to-use character for beginners, despite his popularity with them. You probably notice a lot of silly tactics being used by Ryu noobs, like teleport spams. Rig would definitely be "easier." But, in the end, pick a character based on how good you feel using them. And in my opinion, Hayabusa is just too damn cool to accept a substitute.

If you're on Core Fighters, you're on PSN. And if that's the case, I'd love to play some rounds with you and then critique your approach after seeing it for myself. Mind if I add you, there?

 

[Fiend Busa]

don't always go for critical burst combos and if you do go for the guaranteed CB setup

mix up your game with 4k 6kk 8k 214p/4H+K (I think lol)

play some mind games as well, make your opponent guess your next move and punish them with an izuna

example of mix ups:

lol I dunno if this input is correct its the sitdown kick
4H+K 6P 6kk
4H+K 6P 4H+K 236p
4H+K 6p 4k
4H+K 6p 41236T
4H+K 6p 236p

this is just an example of a mix up game for launching your opponent

but yeah im not technical with DOA so don't take my advice to seriously ^.^

 

[AkaShocka]

If your CBs are getting held a lot. You gotta delay them, use an early launcher or throw (Hayabusa's Izuna is one of the best throws in the game, use them wisely). Since his jab, 6p etc, are slower than many other characters he struggles at the neutral game so that is probably why you have issues with speedy characters. Hayabusa has decent crushes and some are better than others. Lol, I'm no Ryu player but I look at his lows and they suck. His 1p is a good crush though but is not so depend able. Also, they took away home GBs he had in vanilla for some reason, those GBs were good for pressure and now that the some are taken out he has more trouble applying pressure. Just watch out for certain characters that really fuck Ryu over (Christie, Kasumi, Ayane, ..Sarah...) because once they get going there is no stoping them. Well, fuck Sarah, she even gives the other top tiers a hard time with her bullshit frames. Aside from the VF characters, I think Ryu has the hardest time against Christie, Kasumi and Ayane.

Also, try not to be too unsafe. Easier said than done but Ryu has his unsafe moments. Unlike Kasumi and Christie who can hide their unsafeness in speed and stances, Ryu can't really just throw out a random move then do something evasive to avoid punishment. Being unsafe is a terrible thing, wether fighting a speedy character or a slow grappler. Unsafeness can lead to bad things. Characters like Hitomi can punish with an annoying ass reset or characters like Tina can punish with a throw that does a lot of damage.

 

[UprisingJC]

Just watch out for certain characters that really fuck Ryu over (Christie, Kasumi, Ayane, ..Sarah...) because once they get going there is no stoping them. Well, fuck Sarah, she even gives the other top tiers a hard time with her bullshit frames. Aside from the VF characters, I think Ryu has the hardest time against Christie, Kasumi and Ayane.

Also, try not to be too unsafe. Easier said than done but Ryu has his unsafe moments. Unlike Kasumi and Christie who can hide their unsafeness in speed and stances, Ryu can't really just throw out a random move then do something evasive to avoid punishment.

Would you mind giving a detailed explanation about those, sir?

I did also play as Hayabusa for a while but I did it just for knowing his moves and how to deal with him better. My main chars are basically, Kasumi, Leon and Bayman.

Ryu's strings really suck as hell but once he stuns his opponents it's gonna be a pain in the neck for them.
On the other hand, there're some characters like Kasumi and Helena, who rely heavily on (mid) punches, while Ryu has advanced holds that can deal a lot of damage, especially the one that deals with mid punches.


Characters like Kasumi mostly retaliate with (mid) punches, while some like Hitomi and Leon may sometimes retaliate with their knee attack as they have the identical speed as their fastest mid punches are.

 

[Nameless Sama]

Ryu is slow with his string but also he can punish most of the opponents with P and sidestep P and K. I have figured out that sidestepping with Ryu is very useful.

Ryu strength are his holds and throws and if you can manage to use his every kind of Izuna then you can win easier.
I have example porblems against Kasumi becuase of her speed but I have the feel now that I can beat every Pro Kasumi Player now.

Generel Infomation about Ryu in DOA5U: Ryu is a very hard character to use becuase his emphases are the 360 Thorws and Expert Izuna Holds but of the side that is his strentgh.The another point is that Ryus combos are dependent from the timing. As a Ryu Player you need to know what you are doing otherwise your combo wll not work. Of course every Player must know what he or she must do but by Ryu you can drop your combos very easy. If you decide to main with Ryu you should learn to calm down in every moment otherwise you will drop your combos again and the fatal point is you will miss your 360 Thros or Holds which you would cost your round. How I should say it. His punishing moves are dependent from the timing and if you miss the timing you will drop it. Ah yes Ryu is one of the characters that you must play always with him otherwise you will never be good with him trust me. Alone the 360 Expert Holds needs too much practice.

Offense: Ryu has a little of GB but his and are good and fast strikes. is a good distance Punch which breaks most of the opponents strikes. is a very good distance strike which breaks almost every move. is very useful if you want to break Mid Punches and Mid Kicks and High Strikes. is very good if the opponent are lying on the ground. is one of the most inportent strikes ever. is a GB and it allows you like in ryus onygion stance. is one of his Combo build up stones. is a very good punish move it allows you a guarantee damage after a stun. Know his mother of good Important move is the handstand kick . This move is the key for very high damage. This moves allows you in Tag a good juggle Combo BUT this is a very hard move to perform it becuase is dependent from the timing. is a very useful move and a very good sit stun is better than the sit stun. His weakness is becuase if the opponent block this move you can get easly punished. is very useful when you the are lying on the ground or you at mid distance when the opponent are going to perform a move. This move is very fast but you get easly punished. His air grab is a very useful tool but is hard to perform becuase is dependet from the amount and the timing of the opponent. It seems very easly from the inouts but trust me if you are emploing with him then you will know what I mean.

5/5 Holds: Holds and Throws are Ryus strentghs becuase he can perfrom the Izuna drop which makes a lot of damage. His expert holds allows him to make air juggles which you can combine it with environment combos like the pillar or boxes. Every beginner dont know what is his real point of the expert holds. I have noticed that almost and even knowledge player make expert hold combos which is a very bad idea because if you think logical you will know that the expert holds are for environment combos where you know that you can hit the opponent with the combo to an electric fence for example. In general makes an Expert Izuna hold more damage than these air juggle combos. Its really sad that the most ryu player are copy the same combo from other Ryu player. Its okay but it would be better if you are creating for yourself combos maybe your combos are better than the other who knows.
I have created for myself a another combo which is better than the regular standard combo form the other ryu player.



Damage: One think is sure Ryu makes the most damage with his Izuna Otochi
and
and with his expert holds Senko , Rekko and Yako = . And if you are at the cliff and perform a Izuna you can be sure that you make a half life damage. His Throws and Graps are too dangerous and makes more damage than Bass and for Leon. They have no change from the damage points,
Ryus Shoho Izuna makes too much damage. Its like a 16 hit combo with CB.

Speed: He has fast strikes but slow strikes too. All in one he is ok. His Strikes are a little bit slower but they can crush at least. is your good card to safe your ass form mid P from fast characters like ayane or kasumi. His Speed doesnt work well on fast characters thats why is a good idea to use .

Safeness: You are going to play with Ryu you must play with careful becuase against a pro player you will get punished. Almost every move is minus on block and his moves need some time to recover and till this time you can get punished. Most of the opponents are to dump to make a mid Kick counter becuase he hasnt a mid kick launcher besides in Tag. You can confuse you opponent easy with mid kicks. His Strikes is slow but you need at least 3 moves you can make CB. His Stun rate is very impressive.

I will make a breakedown and maybe a tutorial video for ryu. I play with this character since 7 years. Hmm maybe a Live commentary ? We will see.

have questions ? feel free to ask

Nameless

 

[Brute]

Would you mind giving a detailed explanation about those, sir?

Well, for Christie it's the usual biz. You're basically crutching on 4P(4P6P) to negate her endless loop of SSing and crushes.
As far as Kasumi and Ayane go, I'm actually not in agreement with him. I mean yes, they can be problematic, but they're not some of Ryu's toughest MUs. Kasumi is quite unsafe, so if you block her stuff he has some damn good throw punishes, and he can out-space her fairly effectively. Ayane's biggest strength is in her spacing, which Ryu has some nasty tools to stuff that. Up close, Ayane still has the clear advantage, and Ryu is playing defensively, but not more so than any other slow-ish character.

Helena, for example, gives him more issues than either Kasumi or Ayane in my experience. I know he said "aside from VFs," but I still need to give a special mention to Pai as one of Ryu's worst match-ups.

 

[AkaShocka]

Would you mind giving a detailed explanation about those, sir?

About Christie, Sarah, Kasumi, and Ayane giving him difficult times? Sure.


:Christie: - 9f jab, 11f 6p, 13f mid kick (3k). Her speed alone already gives her the advantage at neutral. Her crushes are far better and most are even fast and some can lead into her special SS (wonderful right? ). Christie Has the better mix ups, speed, crushes, and evasiveness. As we all know she is extremely unsafe most of the time. Ryu having great throws really helps him if Christie fucks up. Also, Ryu has an OH and Christie does not (Is that 8T his only OH?) and he has a teleport parry. Those can't really put the match straight in his favor but it can help him here and there if they are used right. I don't really know what the best thing for him to do against Christie besides punish actually or keep her pressured. Spacing her out will work slightly but not that great because she can also be decent from a distance. Holds and throws!! Throws and holds work 100% better for Ryu in this match since Christies throws and holds are honestly shitty (excluding her low punch hold) compared to his. Having a great read on Christie, which is hard as hell, can really work in his favor because if he gets them good throws and holds on her, she's as good as dead.

- Lol. What does Sarah not have? I would love to say punish but ummm, lol. Ryu's only bet for Sarah is space her out because staying in her face as Ryu is honestly not a great idea due to her frame advantages on block and great lows that stun on NH and a wonderful parry of course. Attacking after Sarah does some moves like her 6kp can lead to you getting parried. If she does after 6kp she enter another stance and if she does after 6kp you will get parried if you attack. She can enter her slide shuffle/parry after 3pp, 6kp, kp, and forward slide shuffle pp. Also, Sarah pressure is too extreme for Ryu. He can try holds but she has so many fakes into flamingo that holds are so hard to pull off on her because she can hit on all hit levels after those fakes so easily. Have a mentioned her wonderful Sabaki? Ah yes, her p+k beats out any mids or highs. Did you know she has and evasive move from flamingo that NOTHING can hit her while she is in the animation of it? Yep, flamingo 4p+k makes her completely untouchable, even throws can get her. But after the animation, she's at -55 so yea, take advantage of that. Sarah even has a jump like Kasumi (9p+k for both of them) but it's way slower than Kasumi's. Ryu can literally only use his spacing against her because Sarah is just too good at everything. But hey, Sarah has the slide shuffle that takes her pretty far even on full screen and it can go into her parry .


I don't know much about Ayane and Kasumi so I can't help you there.

 

[Brute]

Also, Ryu has an OH and Christie does not (Is that 8T his only OH?)

He has 8T (guillotine throw), ongyoin 8T (teleport guillotine throw), and WR 4T (handstand neck crack thing)
That last one is uh... yeah. You don't see it much for a reason. It's slow and does unimpressive damage, not to mention it's very risky if whiffed with long animation recovery, which happens a lot with how much people crush or sidestep (Christie in particular). It also has very limited range, and a bunch of other dumb shit. There's really no logical reason to use it in place of 4K, unless you think your opponent might hold high, I guess.

Have a mentioned her wonderful Sabaki? Ah yes, her p+k beats out any mids or highs.

It also crushes lows and is +frames on block, making it literally invincible.

Yes, Sarah is retarded.

 

[Jaguar360]

Also, Ryu has an OH and Christie does not (Is that 8T his only OH?) and he has a teleport parry.

Ryu also has as an offensive hold which can be helpful at times especially if used from a crouching move, but it is usually too slow to do the job otherwise.

I agree with everything you said about the Christie and Sarah matchups. I'd also like to add that their mix-up really screws Ryu over because he relies heavily on reads and getting his expert holds.

EDIT: Brute posted while I was writing my reply. :/

 

[Brute]

EDIT: Brute posted while I was writing my reply. :/

Ninja'd.
It's what I do.