IGN's 12 Days of DOA5

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Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I don't agree with HOW Grap3 saide it, but I agree, I would like to see as little as guessing as possible.

Ends don't justify the means.

In this case we don't even have the ends to try and justify the means because the message gets lost and people get driven off by such pointless dickery.

And this is coming from someone who agrees with him.
 

bingsoo

Well-Known Member
Sorry if this question seems dumb, but with all of the guessing and defense-oriented mechanics that apparently plagued DoA4, how did the same top level players consistently win in tournament play?

I just don't think I understand how the same players continued to win in a game in which guessing was such a big part. It just seems that there had to have been more depth, or I am just not understanding anything o.o
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!

While I don't deny I've been a dick on occasion, my antics do not approach anything you or Raansu do on a regular basis. If anything I usually end up trying to defend the larger point you two were making in some manner and end up taking the heat for everything you said.

Frankly I'm rather tired of it.


Sorry if this question seems dumb, but with all of the guessing and defense-oriented mechanics that apparently plagued DoA4, how did the same top level players consistently win in tournament play?

I just don't think I understand how the same players continued to win in a game in which guessing was such a big part. It just seems that there had to have been more depth, or I am just not understanding anything o.o

Lower level players were impatient and made bad decisions. Higher level players picked characters that could minimize the guessing necessary and maximize the results from that guessing. It was simply a matter of discipline.

Didn't mean there was much less guessing going on though, and it didn't mean ANYBODY was having a fun time.

Even then, we weren't 100% consistent. Dumb shit WOULD happen.
 

grap3fruitman

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Occasion? I think you only stopped once you got invited to do the commentary thing for E3. You've got years on top of me. Of course, we're getting off-topic per the course of any DOA thread.
 

Forlorn Penguin

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Sorry if this question seems dumb, but with all of the guessing and defense-oriented mechanics that apparently plagued DoA4, how did the same top level players consistently win in tournament play?

I just don't think I understand how the same players continued to win in a game in which guessing was such a big part. It just seems that there had to have been more depth, or I am just not understanding anything o.o

Well, I don't think they threw out counters as often as casual players for one thing, relying more on blocking instead, but I'm really not sure what the true in-depth reasoning would be. I'm not a high level player, myself.
 

bingsoo

Well-Known Member
Lower level players were impatient and made bad decisions. Higher level players picked characters that could minimize the guessing necessary and maximize the results from that guessing. It was simply a matter of discipline.

Didn't mean there was any less guessing going on though, and it didn't mean ANYBODY was having a fun time.

Even then, we weren't 100% consistent. Dumb shit WOULD happen.

Thanks. Was it just the holds in stun that caused most of this guessing mess?
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Occasion? I think you only stopped once you got invited to do the commentary thing for E3. You've got years on top of me. Of course, we're getting off-topic per the course of any DOA thread.

What are you looking for? Justification for your poor behavior?

Or do you want me to tell you that I'm special and you're not, and this excuses me? No, I'm not on the level 100% of the time, but I'm on the level most of the time. These days you're usually being an ass. That's the present state of affairs and the only affairs that are currently relevant.

As for myself, I may act like a dick on the rare occasion I lose my temper, but I never need someone else to pull me out of an argument. I can't say the same for you.

Thanks. Was it just the holds in stun that caused most of this guessing mess?

Holds out of stun, holds out of wall hits, holds out of throws that gave advantage, holds out of partition hits, etc.

Then you throw in the large stun threshold which gave more opportunities to hold than previous DOA titles, along with greatly increased damage from those holds.

Then you make the low hold recover ridiculously fast to the point the defender actually recovers from a stun faster than the attacker recovers from his own attack.

And yea, you run into problems.
 

Pupi18

Well-Known Member
I think we should embrace all the dicks in the community with a strong, but firm embrace.

21526552.jpg

I like you! XD
 

MrMoon360

Well-Known Member
I said "please." I'm also addressing a very ignorant statement that needs to be pointed out as being ignorant. It's exactly that kind of "it'll just be Tekken or Virtua Fighter" mindset that's holding back DOA from becoming a really solid fighter and it's a shame.

You should explain yourself more thoroughly with less of a condescending tone.
I've come to understand that countering in-stun is a gamble, although a defense measure in stun. But explain how this makes DOA broken (not solid). "Because you shouldn't be able to counter after you mess up"?

Ignorance is innocence, so maybe you'd play nice and explain. I dunno.

How has the gambling aspect become an issue here in DOA 5?
Is it holds in-stun thats the problem?
Why even pick up DOA if you're annoyed by this? Its been there. That's what I'm not understanding. Why change this?

I believe this is just the way DOA was meant to be played. Not "like DOA4", but with uncertainty of sure victory on account of a hit-confirm.
In no way do I seek a broken DOA 5 in our future.
High risk, high reward.
I'd like it to remain a more technical fighter.

And when someone refers to guessing, I'm assuming they're talking about defense. That's all up to the player how he intends to anticipate offense. It is my hope that holds have considerable recovery to discourage spamming them advantageously. High-Counter damage is already there to help.

I'm no 'know-it-all', I assure you. I'm willing to learn more in these forums. But I can't help but feel you don't have a mindset for balance in DOA (keeping it true to DOA), only preference.
 

bingsoo

Well-Known Member
Rikuto said:
Holds out of stun, holds out of wall hits, holds out of throws that gave advantage, holds out of partition hits, etc.

Then you throw in the large stun threshold which gave more opportunities to hold than previous DOA titles, along with greatly increased damage from those holds.

Then you make the low hold recover ridiculously fast to the point the defender actually recovers from a stun faster than the attacker recovers from his own attack.

And yea, you run into problems.

Oh wow.. I never knew.. No wonder so many of u are so frustrated. Thanks for the explanation.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
IMO CB is going to be a tool for people that want to play DOA4. More risk more reward. But there are other ways for characters to inflict guaranteed damage without needing to play the stun game or CBs. Throws, guard breaks, frame advantage, and moves that leave you in guaranteed stun situations are becoming more plentiful with each build.
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
Why even pick up DOA if you're annoyed by this? Its been there. That's what I'm not understanding. Why change this?

If you find a really nice house that you like a lot but every single faucet in the house leaks and has leaked since the day the house was built, do you leave it alone? No, you fix the damn faucets.


Just because something was designed a certain way doesn't mean it should stay that way. DoA5 will never improve with that type of logic.
 

Crystic

Member
If you find a really nice house that you like a lot but every single faucet in the house leaks and has leaked since the day the house was built, do you leave it alone? No, you fix the damn faucets.


Just because something was designed a certain way doesn't mean it should stay that way. DoA5 will never improve with that type of logic.
Actually, to be honest, I would probably look for another house. There is something to be said about the build quality if the faucets leaked since the first day the house was built.
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
Actually, to be honest, I would probably look for another house. There is something to be said about the build quality if the faucets leaked since the first day the house was built.

That's nice, but the point was that you fix what is broken not leave it alone just because it has always been that way. But lets throw your smart ass response back at you. TTT2 and DoA5 launch relatively close. Guess where everyone is going to go if DoA5 doesn't get fixed?
 
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