IGN's 12 Days of DOA5

[DR2K]

You can bypass stun by holding, thats the problem.

If you hold the first few frames after getting stunned, thanks in part to being able to hold inmediatly after stun, in part to the 13 frame hold recovery, and in part to the attacker having to go through the recovery of his OWN ATTACK, and then his next attack having an X ammount of frames of startup, you end up in a situation where the defender succesfully bypassed stun by holding inmediatly and is able to block the next attack.

That fucks the stun game completely over

If you hit someone while they hold, even if it's a delayed attack. The stun and combo counter are extended. Whereas a delayed attack wouldn't if they didn't hold. That was shown sevral times in the videos.

Your scenerio only works in situations with moves with excess recovery. It's not a bypass stun system get out of jail free card.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

If you hit someone while they hold, even if it's a delayed attack. The stun and combo counter are extended. Whereas a delayed attack wouldn't if they didn't hold. That was shown sevral times in the videos.

Your scenerio only works in situations with moves with excess recovery. It's not a bypass stun system get out of jail free card.

Yeah thats why i try to learn not to spam out combos. People always delay there attacks and i practically lose all my health once there done.

 

[BierKlauMeister]

If you hit someone while they hold, even if it's a delayed attack. The stun and combo counter are extended. Whereas a delayed attack wouldn't if they didn't hold. That was shown sevral times in the videos.

Your scenerio only works in situations with moves with excess recovery. It's not a bypass stun system get out of jail free card.

Look at the first batch of videos, Rig vs Elliot at the 2:06 / 2:08 mark not really sure... Elliot stuns Rig, Rig counters inmediatly after the hit, and recovers in time to block the next mid attack (he does it specifically with a low hold... Rig gets stunned, he holds low, and blocks the next attack)

Same problem was in DOA4... if you are fast and precise enough, it becomes a free get out of jail card vs a lot of moves.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Look at the first batch of videos, Rig vs Elliot at the 2:06 / 2:08 mark not really sure... Elliot stuns Rig, Rig counters inmediatly after the hit, and recovers in time to block the next mid attack (he does it specifically with a low hold... Rig gets stunned, he holds low, and blocks the next attack)

Same problem was in DOA4... if you are fast and precise enough, it becomes a free get out of jail card vs a lot of moves.

Wasnt that because her passed the max threshold?

 

[BierKlauMeister]

If he had passed the max threshold he would have just fallen down

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

It hides the entire HUD, so you wouldn't be able to see the life bars.



Did you ever consider the fact that A LOT of the moves you think are punishable are not? o_0

I did think that but it's been reported that everyone is more unsafe than before, and there is no way they made Ayane incredibly safe. I'd wager money on that

Yay less punishable moves. I hope this applies a lot with Kasumi then.

I wouldn't yay just yet dude, I'd lay money down that these players are just playing bad. They are not even attempting to throw punish. Plus I'll call BS if Kasumi becomes safe, it's the only thing that makes characters like her and Ayane balanced.

 

[Einzelkind]

Several credible sources said that there are more safe moves in DOA5 so I don't really see where you're coming from here. Of course there will be character specific differences, but judging from the video footage, a lot of moves can't be punished with throws.There are several examples in the new videos with Bayman where a player tries to throw after a blocked move and gets smacked in the face for it.

 

[ChrisArmoun]

Just watched the latest batch of match videos and am sad to say I was sorely dissappointed. 9 matches uploaded and all featured Bayman. Only 3 other characters, Kasumi, Jann Lee, and Hitomi, were even used. Hitomi and Bayman are two of my mains but it would have been nice to see some variety. Dang. Guess I'll have to hold out for more vids

 

[Black Dragon]

They all scream DoA4...Hitomi needing 4-5 hits to get a CB...screw that. Low holds out of stuns...to hell with that. I'm fed up with the game and it's not even out yet. I'm fed up with defensive holds in general. Should only be able to use them in neutral and the stun game should of been completely reworked. Maybe DoA6 will be good *rolls eyes*

You're overestimating the pros playing the game, and how sequels work.

DOA5 is a transition out of DOA4, not just an overhaul. The people playing the game are still more familiar with DOA4 than DOA5. Because it is possible to play DOA5 like DOA4 (although not necessary), players will play it like DOA4 because that's more familiar to them, even if they're aware of the differences.

The changes you want will come, just not in this game - that's way too much change between sequels. You're looking at another 2-3 further sequels before the stun game and DH use gets reworked.

Chill.

 

[Keylay]

I was exaggerating because everything I listed goes against anything DOA4 represents. Right now we have players playing new build of the game, and not being properly used to all the hit property changes, frame data changes, and all the other nuances that signifigantly alter the way the game is played. So they rely on the game they've played signifigantly more.

With these matches, no one was afraid to go on the offense. Because relying on the hold system in this build is too much of a risk and completely not worth it. Damage is heavily skewed toward offense, and that's nothing like DOA4.

I agree that players may not know how to play the game yet. It's not out yet so it's hard to say until we get our hands on it. But I don't think the lower damaging defensive holds will make the attacker any less afraid of them. The attacker will still lose the offense and take damage if they get caught by a defensive hold. And there's no punishment if the defender does the wrong defensive hold. The defender can stay in the stun and take the hit or do a defensive hold that recovers faster than the stun and has the chance to take the offense and do damage. If they did the wrong hold, they will still take same amount of damage that they would have taken if they just stayed in the stun with no penalty. If I had it my way, they would be put in the critical burst stun even if they aren't at the max critical threshold.

I wonder though... have you guys ever asked yourselves why does holding return you to neutral state after being stunned? Like i never asked myself that question until today. Like once youre stunned, if you hold and your opponent does nothing, you just go through the hold animation and return to neutral... shouldnt you return to being stunned if the hold didnt hold anything and you werent hit while holding? Holds work like fast slow escpaing in a way... they werent even designed for that. Holds were designed to counter (their name is counter holds right?) an opponents move, so why do they just interrupt stun status and bring you back to neutral?

I think there relies a huge problem with holds

They're called defensive holds but yes, I agree. I've always thought that if you do a defensive hold during a stun, the recovery frames of the stun should get added to the recovery frames of the hold. So if a stun lasts for 70 frames and you do a hold 30 frames into the stun, 40 frames should get added to the recovery of the frames of the defensive hold. I dislike how fast holds recover in critical stun.

 

[Darrell]

HAHA! That would look stupid as f***! Hold and then return to being stunned . Oohhh I'm ok now,oops, but I missed so I still stunned. Get what you're saying, but that would look f***** dumb! hahaa!!

also the low hold complaints can work more against the player, more than for them. If they want to set themselves up to get low thrown, let em. It's not gonna work against high level players anyways, so what's all the crying about. People screaming DOA4 cause of it, and just completely looking past all the major improvements.

 

[Keylay]

I would want them to stay in the hold animation longer. Not go back into the stun animation.

You have to anticipate the low hold to throw them which makes the attacker have to guess. If they guess wrong, they can lose the offense.

 

[Xion]

Use Edit button Darell.

Cant wait for the tournament! I hope to see at least a bit more diversity in this one, since there's so many more characters available. (Hopefully at least 1 good Kokoro)

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

Cant wait for the tournament! I hope to see at least a bit more diversity in this one, since there's so many more characters available. (Hopefully at least 1 good Kokoro)

Same here. I'd like to see more Kokoro, Brad, Eliot, and Tina especially.

I have to admit that I liked the abundance of Bayman in the latest nine videos though. I love all his crazy grapples. I hope he doesn't end up being overplayed though. All those awesome throws of his will get stale if you see them every other match.

 

[Raansu]

The changes you want will come, just not in this game - that's way too much change between sequels. You're looking at another 2-3 further sequels before the stun game and DH use gets reworked.

Chill.

LOL "hey guys there is always next year right!?...right?"

You can wait around for another 7 years for a sequel that may or may not (most likely not) if you want but I'm personally done with the franchise if DoA5 turns out to be ass.

 

[Rikuto]

these guys CLEARLY are complete scrubs. srsly.

 

[Black Dragon]

LOL "hey guys there is always next year right!?...right?"

You can wait around for another 7 years for a sequel that may or may not (most likely not) if you want but I'm personally done with the franchise if DoA5 turns out to be ass.

And you won't know if it's ass until you've gotten your hands on it.

So again, chill.

 

[grap3fruitman]

these guys CLEARLY are complete scrubs. srsly.

I could tell from the gameplay that the Bayman player was really sad for not being able to use to any benefit any more...

The changes you want will come, just not in this game - that's way too much change between sequels. You're looking at another 2-3 further sequels before the stun game and DH use gets reworked.

You have people asking for changes to be made for a decade and that's not enough to get things fixed in this game? What kind of logic is that?

 

[Ooobe]

Regardless of specific scenarios, if the stunned defender recovers before the successful attacker, there's something wrong.

I don't understand how this could be any simpler or more obvious.

Even if I'm genius fighting guy and I get hit and instictively counter on reflex, I still can't possibly recover before the attacker, especially, if I counter wrong.

But nevermind, I'm not trying to kick up that whole debate again. It's been done too much and some of you obviously have the patience of saints. XP

 

[Black Dragon]

You have people asking for changes to be made for a decade and that's not enough to get things fixed in this game? What kind of logic is that?

Sequel logic! Welcome to the game development industry, where money needs to be made, and casual audiences take precedence over the hardcore!

At face value, nothing much has changed since DOA2. And face value > depth. So there's no way TN's gonna keep familarity fro DOA2-4 then do a complete switcharoo for DOA5. Fuck the casuals, the publisher won't like it - there's too much risk involved, especially this generation.

So they'll do some changes. Enough to keep the hardcore happy, and to keep a sense of familiarity for the casuals.

It's all compromise.

As much as Shibamori would love to make major changes to the system (if he does), even he knows not to rush. The industry doesn't involve around the hardcore unless money can be made off them.

BTW, the previous demands for changes were to a previous leader too stubborn to find and fix the faults. And while Shibamori takes feedback from you guys, he also has to consider his team, his higher-ups, the casuals, etc.

Lack of satisfaction is good and all, but have some perspective.