DOA5LR Kasumi's top worst moves discussion~

KasumiLover

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Premium Donor
Hello everyone! As you can obviously tell by my username, I'm a heavy Kasumi main and love Kasumi-chan with all my heart.:kasumi: I've noticed that we discuss her best moves a lot, and how to properly use them with strategies and general discussion, so I wanted to make a thread that lets everyone voice their opinion on Kasumi's top 5 worst moves that we use very rarely, or even avoid when possible.
I'll start:

  • :4::4::P:- I never really use this move or combo strings that come with it because to me, the input is....weird. Sometimes I get, sometimes I don't, so I never use it online. Although it's good for avoiding some attacks and tripping up opponents, I really don't think the risk of messing it up and getting punished for it is really worth it.
  • :236::P:- I don't really like this move because of one reason: Although it launches the opponent when it hits, and the move is very unsafe on block, and you're gonna eat either a nasty combo or a throw-punish if it doesn't hit. It's also not very useful when facing a very defensive player who blocks the majority of your attacks, and it makes her go forward, so when it whiffs.....*shudder*
These are the only moves I could think of that aren't very useful in my opinion, but these are just my thoughts, and I wish to hear what other people think are her worst moves.
 
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tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
These are the only moves I could think of that aren't very useful in my opinion, but these are just my thoughts, and I wish to hear what other people think are her worst moves.

Mhm ... so you want to have thread about her top 5 worst moves you use rarely, but you can't think of more than two yourself? xD
Also, worst seems to be equal with "not used often" for you, is that right?

:4::4::4::P:- I never really use this move or combo strings that come with it because to me, the input is....weird. Sometimes I get, sometimes I don't, so I never use it online. Although it's good for avoiding some attacks and tripping up opponents, I really don't think the risk of messing it up and getting punished for it is really worth it.

Beside the fact that this move doesn't even exists (I guess you mean :4::4::P: instead), I think this is actually a pretty good move (depending on the answer you would give to my second question above) because it kind of sidestepps attacks but also avoids throws at the same time. And even if you mess up the input, in which way exactly do you get punished for it? This move is -3 on block, so if you stop mashing P after it because it got blocked and the opponent is going to throw you after it, you can get hi-counter from it next time.

However, most players won't try to punish you with a throw because they will respect her string opportunities after it. And this also means you actually can't even get punished with strikes for doing it too because her string goes high-mid (low) and is therefore very difficult to crush.

:236::P:- I don't really like this move because of one reason: it launches the opponent when it hits, but the move is very unsafe on block, and you're gonna eat either a nasty combo or a throw-punish if it doesn't hit. It's also not very useful when facing a very defensive player who blocks the majority of your attacks

You don't like the move because the opponent get's launched when it hits? So I guess you also don't like her other launchers :7::K:, :3::3::K: or :3::H+K:? This is my preferred launcher if I want to go for big damage since I find the free step :4::H+K: launch more difficult to perform. It's -12 on block which is not that bad imo. Just as comparison, 7K is -30 on block. You can even use to get counter-hit launches during the spacing game, it's not that risky imo because you just will fall to the ground if you get hit out of it in mid air.



Mhm ... so let me see what I could have as top 5 "worst" ...


Sidestepp :K: - I actually prefer using her sidestep punch instead, although this one would offer a deeper stun on normal hit and a launch on counter hit. The main reason for this are that her sidestep punch catches low stances and crouching moves better and simply comes out faster too.


:6::H+K: - Although I like this move because it allows some interesting combos and grants a wall slam for a high damaging wall combo, I'm not pretty successfull with landing it. It has a good range but is also pretty slow, which means it can get slow escaped easily. In consideration of it's properties (speed, active frames, recovery, follow-ups) and what it grants you on hit, it's still pretty bad compared to :H+K: or :8::K:.


:9::P::K: - Seriously, those who think it is a good idea to throw out this move out of a neutral situation are either pretty brave or foolish. Of course, it is a great tool for juggles, but other than that, you can either punish Kasumi for whiffing it a single time out of nowhere as well as evade these flashy loops some people like to pull off. Since it's a high with a very slow startup due to the flip she has to do first, it's a flashy juggle tool for audience entertainment and nothing else imo.


:4::9::h: and :4::3::h: - I am of the opinion that advanced high parries are one of the most useless things in the game, if they just grant you a bit more damage (as long as you can perform the juggle correctly) on the same chance of success for catching a move as the normal hold has.

And since I've played Phase 4 for quite a time who does not have such kind of advanced parries for mid attacks as comparison, I also think that this is something that does neither help Kasumi in any way to avoid attacks better (due to the fact that she has a normal parry with even easier input), nor to take the win faster without taking more risk. Although I generally think that input should not be a criteria for comparing the usefullness of a move, I'd still apply it here.

Sure, these things might be completely different when talking about other characters like Marie Rose, Gen Fu or others who might get guaranteed stuff from them, but in case of Kasumi, I don't see them useful in any way and also just as some kind of flashy tool for the sake of impressing the audience. Her advanced mid hold is something different though, since it gives good reward and a guaranteed PB in the ceiling.

Btw, just listed those withouth having a specific order.

*Edit*

Oh, and I could add :2::H+K: here too.
 
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PMS_Akali

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Premium Donor
I don't really find many of her moves too terrible, but I'd say :2::K::K: has very little going for it.

:1::P::P: is another iffy one. 90% of the time I see people use it, they use it on block. It's only real use is to extend a stun, and even then I see it get countered more than not. Kasumi has to play the stun game a lot, and I'm not a huge fan of delayed attacks when she's doing it. I feel like online is the only reason :1::P::P: even works.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
I don't really find many of her moves too terrible, but I'd say :2::K::K: has very little going for it.

:1::P::P: is another iffy one. 90% of the time I see people use it, they use it on block. It's only real use is to extend a stun, and even then I see it get countered more than not. Kasumi has to play the stun game a lot, and I'm not a huge fan of delayed attacks when she's doing it. I feel like online is the only reason :1::P::P: even works.
I agree with you about those two. I use the :2::K::K: regularly, but I never finish the string, so that my opponent can be tripped up and think I'll do the last hit. The :1::P::P: move is not my cup of tea, because the second hit is somewhat delayed, and comes out a tad bit slower than her other :4::P::P: string. The first hit is great for catching opponents opponents off guard by hitting low, but the second hit is too risky for me even to attempt finishing the string.
 

KasumiLover

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Premium Donor
Mhm ... so you want to have thread about her top 5 worst moves you use rarely, but you can't think of more than two yourself? xD
Also, worst seems to be equal with "not used often" for you, is that right?



Beside the fact that this move doesn't even exists (I guess you mean :4::4::P: instead), I think this is actually a pretty good move (depending on the answer you would give to my second question above) because it kind of sidestepps attacks but also avoids throws at the same time. And even if you mess up the input, in which way exactly do you get punished for it? This move is -3 on block, so if you stop mashing P after it because it got blocked and the opponent is going to throw you after it, you can get hi-counter from it next time.

However, most players won't try to punish you with a throw because they will respect her string opportunities after it. And this also means you actually can't even get punished with strikes for doing it too because her string goes high-mid (low) and is therefore very difficult to crush.



You don't like the move because the opponent get's launched when it hits? So I guess you also don't like her other launchers :7::K:, :3::3::K: or :3::H+K:? This is my preferred launcher if I want to go for big damage since I find the free step :4::H+K: launch more difficult to perform. It's -12 on block which is not that bad imo. Just as comparison, 7K is -30 on block. You can even use to get counter-hit launches during the spacing game, it's not that risky imo because you just will fall to the ground if you get hit out of it in mid air.



Mhm ... so let me see what I could have as top 5 "worst" ...


Sidestepp :K: - I actually prefer using her sidestep punch instead, although this one would offer a deeper stun on normal hit and a launch on counter hit. The main reason for this are that her sidestep punch catches low stances and crouching moves better and simply comes out faster too.


:6::H+K: - Although I like this move because it allows some interesting combos and grants a wall slam for a high damaging wall combo, I'm not pretty successfull with landing it. It has a good range but is also pretty slow, which means it can get slow escaped easily. In consideration of it's properties (speed, active frames, recovery, follow-ups) and what it grants you on hit, it's still pretty bad compared to :H+K: or :8::K:.


:9::P::K: - Seriously, those who think it is a good idea to throw out this move out of a neutral situation are either pretty brave or foolish. Of course, it is a great tool for juggles, but other than that, you can either punish Kasumi for whiffing it a single time out of nowhere as well as evade these flashy loops some people like to pull off. Since it's a high with a very slow startup due to the flip she has to do first, it's a flashy juggle tool for audience entertainment and nothing else imo.


:4::9::h: and :4::3::h: - I am of the opinion that advanced high parries are one of the most useless things in the game, if they just grant you a bit more damage (as long as you can perform the juggle correctly) on the same chance of success for catching a move as the normal hold has.

And since I've played Phase 4 for quite a time who does not have such kind of advanced parries for mid attacks as comparison, I also think that this is something that does neither help Kasumi in any way to avoid attacks better (due to the fact that she has a normal parry with even easier input), nor to take the win faster without taking more risk. Although I generally think that input should not be a criteria for comparing the usefullness of a move, I'd still apply it here.

Sure, these things might be completely different when talking about other characters like Marie Rose, Gen Fu or others who might get guaranteed stuff from them, but in case of Kasumi, I don't see them useful in any way and also just as some kind of flashy tool for the sake of impressing the audience. Her advanced mid hold is something different though, since it gives good reward and a guaranteed PB in the ceiling.

Btw, just listed those withouth having a specific order.

*Edit*

Oh, and I could add :2::H+K: here too.
Excuse me for all the mistakes about the moves listed.:) but I do agree her :4::9::h: and :4::3::h: parries are relatively useless. All they do is grant you quick access to her attacks that come when she does :3::P+K:, and the the two step input isn't really worth it. :3::h: And :9::h: are much easier and more simple parry commands that can put you behind the opponent, and allow you to do your own combo, as long as the opponent doesn't turn back around in time. :9::P::K: Is another move I forgot to list that I never use....it's just to risky in neutral position, and I only use it when I do:7::K::6::~::9::P::K:.
 

PMS_Akali

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I can't believe I forgot :6::6::H+K:. That move is terrible. The only possible way I could see using this, is if you've scared your opponent so bad with pokes that they never even think of low hold or crouching. And even if you land this move, it does like no damage and automatically throws them on the ground so that they can escape your pressure. Which you don't want with Kasumi. If anything, this move should be #1 on her worst moves ever.
 

KasumiLover

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Premium Donor
I can't believe I forgot :6::6::H+K:. That move is terrible. The only possible way I could see using this, is if you've scared your opponent so bad with pokes that they never even think of low hold or crouching. And even if you land this move, it does like no damage and automatically throws them on the ground so that they can escape your pressure. Which you don't want with Kasumi. If anything, this move should be #1 on her worst moves ever.
This move is truly bad. It's not as powerful as you would think, and not as helpful, because Kasumi is a rush down character after all. You should always be down your opponent's throat with her quick assaults, and this move basically gives them a get out of jail free card that lets them escape her relentless pokes.
 

tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I would disagree with :6::6::H+K: being the worst. It is a long range tool that can be used to pretty good during the spacing game to finish opponent of or make them impatient. It tracks, avoids certain mids and highs and forces the them up if they're chiling on the ground. This move is golden to prevent comebacks if they got grounded with just having a pixel left and they tech roll backwards and press buttons immediately.
 
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KasumiLover

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I would disagree with :6::6::H+K: being the worst. It is a long range tool that can be used to pretty good during the spacing game to finish opponent of or make them impatient. It tracks, avoids certain mids and highs and forces the them up if they're chiling on the ground. This move is golden to prevent comebacks if they got grounded with just having a pixel left and they tech roll backwards and press buttons immediately.
It's great for playing against new or mid level players, but I often noticed that when watching high level players, they're really on heavy look out for this move, and the vids I watched had the opponent block it, and sometimes even make a a great comeback. The move is helpful, but it's not one to just throw out there, you have to use it low-key, otherwise it will be become predictable and the opponent will be even more alert for this move. :1::K: or :P::P::2::K: is a great alternative when the opponent is up close and personal with Kasumi-san.
 

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
66H+K can pretty easily crush mid wake up kicks.

3KK and BT 4K are useless if you're not near a wall/perfectly perpendicular to one. 8T is kinda bad.

The advanced parry is good for some moves like Jann's dragon kick where he flies pretty far away, the dash keeps you right at his back to do 6P6K. Outside of that it has a flash factor with the oboro followup which isn't exactly useful but it looks cool :p
 

KasumiLover

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Premium Donor
66H+K can pretty easily crush mid wake up kicks.

3KK and BT 4K are useless if you're not near a wall/perfectly perpendicular to one. 8T is kinda bad.

The advanced parry is good for some moves like Jann's dragon kick where he flies pretty far away, the dash keeps you right at his back to do 6P6K. Outside of that it has a flash factor with the oboro followup which isn't exactly useful but it looks cool :p
I didn't know that :6::6::H+K: crushed mid strikes! Thank you for that information. I always used :9::K: to crush wake up kicks, but now I know I have another option:)
 

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
8P's the best for crushing low wakeups imo since she has more air time.

Kasumi's BT 4K just plain sucks when you compare it to Ayane's exact same move (BT 6K). Why hers is leagues better I'll never know.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
8P's the best for crushing low wakeups imo since she has more air time.

Kasumi's BT 4K just plain sucks when you compare it to Ayane's exact same move (BT 6K). Why hers is leagues better I'll never know.
I think it's because Ayane's fighting style is heavily tailored for her to have her back towards the opponent, because she has a lot of great combos and moves when she is BT. Kasumi's 4K probably blows because she's really not supposed to have her back to her opponent half the time...that's Ayane's thing. When I play as Kasumi, I can't help but feel vulnerable and ill prepared when Kasumi is BT.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Not a Kasumi expert by any means, but I'd say these moves are plain awful:

66KK
6H+KK
6KK
66H+K
SS K
3KK
2H+K
8P
BT 4K
 

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
Not a Kasumi expert by any means, but I'd say these moves are plain awful:

66KK
6H+KK
6KK
66H+K
SS K
3KK
2H+K
8P
BT 4K
66KK is +12 on fastest SE and I think +14 on fast guaranteeing several things. Never ever ever use unless opponent's stunned or you're whiff punishing. NEVER.
6H+KK I agree but the second K can catch people that don't expect you to finish it.
6KK this became moderately safe in LR! D: -7 only grapplers can punish this with an unbreakable throw
I already covered 66H+K
8P is one of her handful of safe moves at -4 (iirc) and is a great low crush
I think it's because Ayane's fighting style is heavily tailored for her to have her back towards the opponent, because she has a lot of great combos and moves when she is BT. Kasumi's 4K probably blows because she's really not supposed to have her back to her opponent half the time...that's Ayane's thing. When I play as Kasumi, I can't help but feel vulnerable and ill prepared when Kasumi is BT.
I don't get why they'd make it suck though. Ayane's is safe and causes a SDS. Kasumi's is unsafe and causes the torpedo unjugglable launch. ??? At least make it safe ffs
 

KasumiLover

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Premium Donor
What would you guys say about this move::4::K::K:? I use it occasionally, but I'm afraid of being put in a bad position, so I try to stop it at just:4::K: so the opponent can be tripped up, and throw out a missed hold
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
What would you guys say about this move::4::K::K:? I use it occasionally, but I'm afraid of being put in a bad position, so I try to stop it at just:4::K: so the opponent can be tripped up, and throw out a missed hold
I think it's not too bad. As far as I know, it's safe on block and if it hits you can usually continue your combo with BT 2P into 4PKK.
 

tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
3KK and BT 4K are useless if you're not near a wall/perfectly perpendicular to one.

3KK is awesome. You can lurk people with the follow-up and the wall splat is useful too since it is faster as her other high kick options. 9K is also useless if you're not near to a wall or perpendicular to it so ...

I agree with the rest btw.

What would you guys say about this move::4::K::K:? I use it occasionally, but I'm afraid of being put in a bad position, so I try to stop it at just:4::K: so the opponent can be tripped up, and throw out a missed hold

You'd actually be better of doing the second kick too. Beside the fact that you are backturned after both, you can't get fast into a safe position after doing only the first one which is -9 on block. You can be easily beaten out or even thrown after it if your opponent does not respect your kick follow-up. And the punch launcher is pretty slow.

4KK on the other hand is just -5, that means you can't even get thrown by most characters, and you can go faster for 2P after it to score a counterhit on reckless opponents.


*Edit* - Just saw that:


6KK is a delayable wallsplat option starting with a tracking mid kick and a natural combo on counterhit. Definitely not that bad.

8P is her best low wakeup kick crush (imo) and anti Helena tool.
 
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tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Gives you a (crappy) bounce launch at higher stun levels. And there's after H+K

Crappy indeed since 33K is your mid kick launcher to go. And after H+K doesn't really count for me because I consider it as part of a juggle then where you could (actually) insert any move depending on how extended you want it to be (e.g. I can also use 6H+K in a juggle).
 
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