Musourenka
Active Member
66P+K seems to tech-crouch from start to finish now. I didn't think it was completely TC in Vanilla; correct me if I'm wrong.
Kokoro Changes in 5U
- Thread starter Bushido
- Start date
GeomighT
Active Member
discovered a huge nerf to her mixup , i just dont know what to attribute it to yet .. if anyone could help me figure out what her +frames were in Vanilla for 3K4K (2nd Kick)on NH and 1k on counter hit id be able explain it ,i no longer have a copy of doa5 vanilla
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Kokomi
Member
Not really sure if this is the right place, but being away from DOA5 for 6 months and therefore losing a lot of my experience and memories of the game, I'm kinda lost again now that I decided to pick up Kokoro. With DOA5U out, can someone tell me how much has Kokoro's gameplay changed?
It'd be nice if someone could explain to me about Kokoro from theoretical perspective, rather than through the technicalities because I am no expert in frames and what not. Would someone answer my question for me?
It'd be nice if someone could explain to me about Kokoro from theoretical perspective, rather than through the technicalities because I am no expert in frames and what not. Would someone answer my question for me?
Saber
Well-Known Member
Same old, same old, but hit with a lot of unnecessary nerfs and not a whole lot of buffs.
She lost quite a few good tools that made her really good, but other than that, she's pretty unchanged. Still would have liked it if she didn't get any nerfs and received some buffs to her linearity since she was pretty much balanced.
Thing is, she still doesn't have any tracking outside of strings. :v
EDIT: Outside of a dumb looking high kick. Hey, at least it backturns, right? :v If only it hit mid.
EDIT: Outside of a dumb looking high kick. Hey, at least it backturns, right? :v If only it hit mid.
Vincent Rayne
Active Member
that move never guard-broke. her only guard break move is still 214P. and i don't get why they add in her 22_88P+K, which was a guardbreak move in DOA4 but doesn't have those properties in DOA5U.
so in essence Kokoro got 3 new moves (not including the power launcher) traded for frame advantages she had. fair trade?
FlamingMuffin
Active Member
Jesus, they really nerfed her (finally found a copy today lol).
Her 44P sabaki can be countered out of with only her i7 grab being able to connect to punish (leaves her at +10).
8P6P is now -1, SDS nerfed too
236P+KP seems okay, but nothing special.
66P+KP+K on block is +3 (one positive, yay...)
Heichu P+K can still be countered out of.
236P and 4PPPP are now -10 on block (vs -7 in 5 I believe)
PK4K (and variants) seem really telegraphed now, same with PK2P.
HER 1T NO LONGER GUARANTEES ANYTHING <<< Biggest pile of crap
Heichu throw nerfed, also terrible.
So really, Alpha 152 might have to be my new main. Kokoro 5U seems to be close to DOA4 Kokoro guessing games. If it wasn't for BT P+K still offering a good SDS....
Her 44P sabaki can be countered out of with only her i7 grab being able to connect to punish (leaves her at +10).
8P6P is now -1, SDS nerfed too
236P+KP seems okay, but nothing special.
66P+KP+K on block is +3 (one positive, yay...)
Heichu P+K can still be countered out of.
236P and 4PPPP are now -10 on block (vs -7 in 5 I believe)
PK4K (and variants) seem really telegraphed now, same with PK2P.
HER 1T NO LONGER GUARANTEES ANYTHING <<< Biggest pile of crap
Heichu throw nerfed, also terrible.
So really, Alpha 152 might have to be my new main. Kokoro 5U seems to be close to DOA4 Kokoro guessing games. If it wasn't for BT P+K still offering a good SDS....
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U_C_A_F
Well-Known Member
Sup dudes, been lurking all character forums just to see reactions to 5u changes and it seems kokoro got it worst out of the entire cast, is her new sabaki the only buff she got? no tracking to fix her linearity? even eliot got a new mid kick tracking move to help against steppers so it looks like she is alone now as the only character with out a non-string mid or low tracking move
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
Someone like Hayate is at -12 in these situations. I find +7 on hit to be something to be grateful for in a situation like PP6P. Be grateful.
In the case of everything else, I feel your pain. A teleport won't make up for the bound changes to Hayate's stuff, where a SD stun would've been a better choice. It seems the direction TN wants to go is SD stuns giving free hits and bounds giving free juggles... which... in that case they might as well just be considered launchers... but whatever. Kinda dumb but I'll deal with it.
Anyway, ya'll probably should band together if you really want her buffed. The SD stun to bound deal unfortunately isn't worth crying over but the lack of tracking isn't.
If I were ya'll, I'd ask for a tracking mid kick that's a cross of Hitomi's 6H+K and Kokoro's H+K animation. 18-20 frames. Safe on block, and heichu transition from it.
On top of that 1K should track and here's why. Out of all of her lows, it holds the most range. This gives you a specific tool to rely on with Christie. Next would be 3K2P and all other variants. Giving Kokoro this would give the opponent more reason to respect the low, and not just step out because they can. This is turn would make it reasonable to make 3K4K slower...
3K should be left alone though, because once you lock in the opponent with 1K, keeping them locked on the full string is a bit ridiculous...
2H+K tracking seems to make sense too, but I could see them making the last kick not track.
BT P6P makes sense as well though its not mandatory., just to have it from BT, and mixing that with BT 2K would solidify her tracking game to handle Christie.
Also, at max threshold 3K4K should ground bounce launch at max threshold. Not bound, ground bounce launch to give her a mid kick launch mix-up with a moderate juggle, which in any case would probably require her 3K4K to be sped up of for the 1KK/BT 4PK relaunch to be increased so it could still land in a juggle...
Anyway... her bounds, how are the combos? P+K, 66P+KP+K~P+K works out on most all of them right? What about for closer to the wall? 9P, 6PPP?
Reikou
Member
Eh.
6P+K -> P used to be able to go through guards. I'm not sure if "guard break" is the correct term, but yeah.
6P+K is essentially a low that could be held high. People usually block standing, so that's why it usually hits. It doesn't stun anymore, but it still hits when it used to hit.
Reikou
Member
ah. ok, it makes sense. Its a stunning low that allows the followup P to hit.
In which case, is there anything in Kokoro's new arsenal that can cover a similar role to the old 6P+K, P to go through guards?
Nope. Have fun with your negative on hit lows.
EDIT: At least you still have PPT~P+K, PPT~2P, and PPT 214T. :v
EDIT: At least you still have PPT~P+K, PPT~2P, and PPT 214T. :v
synce
Well-Known Member
What's funny is despite the throw nerfs TN increased her throw rating in 5U lol Anyway I'm pretty much done with her too. Welcome to the dark side btw
Yeah, I've been heavy in the lab the last few days while trying to find a reason to keep playing her, but I keep finding more things that make me depressed. 236P+KP and 44P are pretty cool, but they're nothing substantial enough to balance out all the stuff she lost.
1T being holdable is jokes, though.
1T being holdable is jokes, though.
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
So let me get this straight. Is it DOA4 status where it gives you the stun state but all follow ups are holdable? If thats the case then its somewhat a buff because that means you now have more starting options and you probably won't be forced to use a wall combo.
If they just decreased the advantage, well thats dumb.