Lets be serious here Alpha-152 needs to be banned.

[Raansu]

CyberEvil:I'll link it in the morning. It will take sometime to find. I have no intentions of hijacking the thread.

Okay okay Why I'll stop talking about player skill...since you really are trying to shove all these paper arguments down my throat so badly I choke on it. You can tell me what is broken until the cow come home, but the player must apply all this broken shit. You see my friend we're doing the playing...so hate it or love it...you know what comes after this.

Btw...I been offline before playing DOA...not an online player...even though that's not a bad thing *coughEmann*cough*. I must be sick that was a nasty cough.

That's not how it works. Does a low tier character become God status when he wins a tournament? No he's still low tier. It doesn't matter how good or bad a player is, it all comes down to characters tools and how strong they truly are. This is a fact, Alpha has the throw game of a grappler while also having the pure pressure of speed by being a striking character and the damage output on juggles equaling that of her throws on top of the myriad of other things that have been repeated a dozen times. This is not a balanced character. When 5U comes out and if this remains the same on top of the buffs we have seen her getting...she clearly will need to be banned before TFC.

 

[David Gregg]

This is not a balanced character.

Welcome to DOA where buffs are randomly handed out and characters needing buffs get nerfed even more.

 

[J.D.E.]

But yet her ever SO impossible strings are easy to reverse and are extremely predictable at this point.

I'm looking at the EVER SO official tier list, and I see no reason as to why she should be banned. I find her predictable in most cases, and most of her moves can totally be side-stepped. Why do people pick Christie when others pick Alpha? Why do people jump to certain levels? Because Alpha has severe weaknesses that people exploit, and that does not warrant a ban.

Alpha is weak, and in DOA5U she will be a feather-weight which means the weight she's throwing is being thrown right back at her.

And once again... the game isn't out. And she's been a "money-maker" for NEC? I don't see your point here. She hasn't won many tournaments. For Christ sake, ELIOT is a money maker when in the hands of Xcal.

You're arguing a different fact here & not the one that's presented (same to BlazeIncartnated, Omega, & a few others in this thread). This is a player using the character, not the character facts & what she has, let alone what kind of damage that she can do which is what people are trying to tell you. It has nothing to do with the tier list, either because we're not talking character match ups. We're talking Alpha. How the characters do in tournaments has nothing to do with what everybody is talking about in terms of Alpha, the character. There's a difference in between a player's adaptation & a character's tools.

Not to derail the topic (I was gonna make another paragraph to those who keeps getting offended but I didn't want to be tagged for a warning) I voted "yes" for right now for some of the same reasons as Tenryuga & PL did. I don't know about a permanent ban, but I like the temporary ban at least until after the 1st few tourneys to see how she turns out.

 

[hollow]

You're arguing a different fact here & not the one that's presented (same to BlazeIncartnated, Omega, & a few others in this thread). This is a player using the character, not the character facts & what she has, let alone what kind of damage that she can do which is what people are trying to tell you. It has nothing to do with the tier list, either because we're not talking character match ups. We're talking Alpha. How the characters do in tournaments has nothing to do with what everybody is talking about in terms of Alpha, the character. There's a difference in between a player's adaptation & a character's tools.

Not to derail the topic (I was gonna make another paragraph to those who keeps getting offended but I didn't want to be tagged for a warning) I voted "yes" for right now for some of the same reasons as Tenryuga & PL did. I don't know about a permanent ban, but I like the temporary ban at least until after the 1st few tourneys to see how she turns out.

Oooooor you could all just wait until the game comes out and see how many of your facts based on DOA5 are STILL facts :O

 

[KiLLeR]

If were going to start banning characters. Ban the VF characters, the ninjas(Except Hayate and Hayabusa), Brad and Lisa, Genfu (fuck you old man), Leifang and Christie and Helena.

tf!? if you ban kasumi and ayane there would be no point in doa really
this whole situation is about alpha and pretty much without kasumi there would be no alpha.just be quiet because that made no sense...

 

[Brute]

tf!? if you ban kasumi and ayane there would be no point in doa really
this whole situation is about alpha and pretty much without kasumi there would be no alpha.just be quiet because that made no sense...

He was making a hypothetical ad absurdity, trying to demonstrate that every character is as precious as another, and that in his opinion Kasumi and Ayane are OP in the way we feel Alpha is. ie: he wasn't being wholly serious

PS: I don't agree with him. Neither Kasumi nor Ayane is half as stupid as Alpha is.

 

[Codemaster92163]

This thread makes me sad.

I really wish they kept her parry to what it used to be - the same as her counters, just technically worse since there was more recovery and you instantly ran right next to the opponent instead of being able to space yourself out.

I get that she has amazing offensive tools, but what good are they if you can read her correctly just once? Her counters don't give her anything, and half the time leave her in just as bad a position. While her strings are long, they're all predictable, and several of them can be beaten out with a high crush at several points. Her 7K is no longer Godly, even if it's still annoying, and once she's knocked down, she's in a lot of trouble seeing as how she has no wake-up options apart from getting up (and the occasional H+K kick which can only happen in certain situations). Her throw damage is great, yeah, but it WOULD be an easy fix just to tone down her B.U.R.S.T. damage (or add an insanely long recovery animation on it should it whiff) and her 2T damage. Even then, she has exactly 1 low string that's even remotely problematic. Alpha's issue is that she has trouble regaining any offensive position when she loses it, so she's not broken or cheap or whatever, just uneven in terms of her capabilities.

The parry should go, I agree. She doesn't deserve it.

I already know, as evidenced by not only the poll but the posts, that I'm in the minority here. Still, I've been playing as/against Alpha since she was first officially released as a playable character back in Dimensions, and she's really not that difficult to deal with. Hell, not even online (save for 8T which still pisses me off).

 

[TakedaZX]

Like I said, I don't want her ass banned [permanently] but a slightly lacking wake up game doesn't seem like enough to ignore the offense... but Code raises a good point. Toning down her shit in comparison to the other (normal) characters would definitely be a good thing. There's no reason for B.U.R.S.T to be 100 damage without counters but something more humane like 70-80 would be fair... It's just the reality is, in exchange for those start up frames there's no combo throw to it still... and even though something like Nakiryu isn't hard for Hayate, if you screw up, you lose all of that possible damage. With Ryu, if you risk a combo and you hit the wall on accident by misjudgment of distance or you mess up the inputs even slightly, you lose that possible damage which overall is a waste. Something like B.U.R.S.T just takes you a long for the ride.

But for the strings, I guess the real question is to find out where the cancel points into her float will be viable, cause one wrong guess on a high crush could me a NH/CH launch on yourself.

 

[hollow]

This thread makes me sad.

I really wish they kept her parry to what it used to be - the same as her counters, just technically worse since there was more recovery and you instantly ran right next to the opponent instead of being able to space yourself out.

I get that she has amazing offensive tools, but what good are they if you can read her correctly just once? Her counters don't give her anything, and half the time leave her in just as bad a position. While her strings are long, they're all predictable, and several of them can be beaten out with a high crush at several points. Her 7K is no longer Godly, even if it's still annoying, and once she's knocked down, she's in a lot of trouble seeing as how she has no wake-up options apart from getting up (and the occasional H+K kick which can only happen in certain situations). Her throw damage is great, yeah, but it WOULD be an easy fix just to tone down her B.U.R.S.T. damage (or add an insanely long recovery animation on it should it whiff) and her 2T damage. Even then, she has exactly 1 low string that's even remotely problematic. Alpha's issue is that she has trouble regaining any offensive position when she loses it, so she's not broken or cheap or whatever, just uneven in terms of her capabilities.

The parry should go, I agree. She doesn't deserve it.

I already know, as evidenced by not only the poll but the posts, that I'm in the minority here. Still, I've been playing as/against Alpha since she was first officially released as a playable character back in Dimensions, and she's really not that difficult to deal with. Hell, not even online (save for 8T which still pisses me off).

All I have to say is thank you codemaster for actually looking at it like she isn't a boss character anymore and she has several flaws even of she does have advantages her disadvantages are just as bad as her advantages are good.

 

[HoodsXx]

People keep going on about omg doa5 is gone doa5u is now the"new" thing. To the people who have actually played the game at SJ and to the others that actually have the game, have already stated (and also from even E3) "DOA5U still plays like DOA5" Therefore you people saying Alpha in doa5 has no relevance in terms of how she'll be "played" in 5U won't change. She'll still have the same bs stuff and if you guys didn't realize we now have MORE ways to get guarantees. On top of what she already had, thatll just make her more ridiculous. Ban please. PS: The fact that people still bring up unsafety in DOA is funny considering its not as bad as people make it out to be. (A lot of Brad's shit is unsafe and he gets away wth tons of bullshit despite being unsafe during a lot of his strings). If Brad who is slow as fuck and unsafe can be fine Alpha even more so is fine. With dealing with some unsafe moves.

 

[David Gregg]

Okay the issue here though is that there is not a unanimous agreement among the community. Look at our official tier list:

July 22, 2013 10:23 PM (GMT - 5)
S: Leifang, Christie, Ayane, Kasumi, Sarah
A: Jann Lee, Akira, Pai
B: ALPHA-152, Gen Fu, Mila, (Ryu) Hayabusa
C: Brad Wong, Helena, Hitomi, Hayate, Lisa, Bayman
D: Kokoro, Tina, Rig, Zack, Bass, Eliot

Although this needs removed ASAP:

 

[Brute]

Again, the "official tier list" is:

A) Incomplete
B) Inaccurate

 

[David Gregg]

But the point I'm trying to make is that this is too subjective. A 60-40 vote isn't what I consider unanimous either.

 

[Rikuto]

Again, the "official tier list" is:

A) Incomplete
B) Inaccurate

And

C) Not official

Most of the people who play this game have a flawed understanding of why things are dominant, what works on paper and what works in practice. I wouldn't trust a single one of you to tell me what was high tier and what was low tier in this game.

 

[Brute]

And

C) Not official

I felt that was implied with my use of trendy quotation marks.

 

[Rikuto]

Certain things are worth reiteration.

The consensus of a debate between lower level players does not reflect reality in any game.

Of course debate is still good, but why in gods name did people try to make a tier list...

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Temporarily banning Alpha is pointless. Unless a character has an infinite they have to be given the opportunity to compete in high level play which is usually at offline tournaments to see if they are actually too good or not.

If we ban characters because they might be too good then anybody can call for any character to be "temporarily banned".

I don't care what she looks like on paper, I have never seen someone go to a tournament with Alpha as their main and dominate.

But if we still go ahead with this then I call for Jann Lee to be "temporarily banned" too. He might be a massive bag of BS again so rather than risk it I'd like him banned for a while till proven otherwise.

 

[werewolfgold]

Certain things are worth reiteration.

The consensus of a debate between lower level players does not reflect reality in any game.

Of course debate is still good, but why in gods name did people try to make a tier list...

Why does any FG community try to make tier lists...?

I feel like there is rarely ever an "official" tier list for a given game. Only ones that the community (individual members or otherwise) comes up with. If the tier list in that thread is so terribad, yet it's the only one that this site has to go on, then why isn't there more of a push for people who (in your mind) would know what they're talking about to help fix it or make a completely different, "high-level" one amongst yourselves? If it's so egregious that you would disregard it completely, then shouldn't something be done? I would think that misinformation being passed around would be kind of harmful to the site/community, would it not?

Everything's about to shift around regardless. But going forward, isn't it in everyone's best interest to have an accurate discussion about how the characters relate to each other within the game? We can't go around with "inaccurate, incomplete" etc. things just lying about, can we?

 

[DeathHand]

i really can't give an answer in this, Im not bad but Im not a top player xD .I only play online (I mean I used to, now I rarely play it, waiting for U), but most online players (the good ones) dont use alpha, only noobs or casuals use her expecting to win against higher rank players, its very rare for these players (noobs/casuals) to win unless theres lag, if theres lag doa becomes a complete random guessing fest, so the alpha players have the upperhand in this cases (I think thats the expression =P ).
in my prespective its not that hard to see her moves coming for me to counter most of the times, I find Helena/Brad/jan way harder and more powerfull (to many possibilities and way to fast in contrast to other characters like Hayate, also some of their mids look like high/vise-versa or the counter gets unresponsive and its not lag ) but i understand that some of her moves are hellishly good like her mid flying kicks, easy juggles and that insane "hadukken" throw xD but as I said its rare to see very good players using her so I cant reach a consensus on this =´ .

 

[lotr9690]

Oooooor you could all just wait until the game comes out and see how many of your facts based on DOA5 are STILL facts :O

Well, last night my copy of doa5u came in waaaay early -- even tho I didn't have a chance to work with the game too long... At first glance alpha's tools seem to be the same. But I don't wanna hijack this thread. All you need to know is she still has her obnoxious throws and she can still land BREAK from like anywhere on the map. Lets not forget her usual flourish of mix ups and add a few more... So yeah it takes more than just adaptation. Even if alpha isn't banned she's still persona non grata.