System Power Launchers suck.

[Brute]

Doa2 didn't have 12 frame throws. Throws were 3-7 frames unless it was a catch throw like Dragon Gunner or Tina's 46T. The 12 frame throw shit wasn't added until 4.

This is actually true, which makes the situation even sadder.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Exactly! Thats the way DOA should be.Its called Dead or Alive for a reason. Its not called POD (Punish and Destroy).

Seriously, the game was PRETTY stupid on the counter game before DOA5 changed it completely on it's ass. I have lost countless times to my brother not on skill, but due to how many chances he had to counter my moves DEAD. That's less punishment and more ridiculous leeway to victory

That's bad how? I've got three at my disposal; yet, throw like crazy! Isn't it bad enough how stupidly you can still launch/combo/juggle on the ground! PLs by this logic are a waste! Why if you can combo-fuck on the ground? Fear somebody will hold? Just aim for it again! Simple! But what is wrong with throwing? You get more damage much, much, much easier. It's not as if people want 5-hour fights which is why CF happens!

Here's what irks me with PBs: with all the CF-ing, is it necessary to do a Critical Blast/Power-blow combo when the opponent has 2% health? And it just adds to the rinse & repeat manner that is already beyond absurd!

Missing my point...again. if we go back to the original style of DOA, we go back to the stall game we had before in which people would be too afraid to do ANYTHING short of Launchers and grabs or stick with fast characters even moreso than ever.

No one cares about making grabs work all of a sudden, we are talking about removing a concept that if anything, completely shows the drawbacks of counter spam as a whole as well as leeway to do some free damage to begin with, something DOA ALWAYS lacked.
This isn't strategy, it's mainly turtling.

Extend the stun or Fast launching. Now you have to option to fast launch, extend the stung to gain a guaranteed launcher PL or PB.

That...solves absolutely nothing...

Many characters LOSE their tools and damage already because of the counter spam in past games and EVEN with the massie nerfing to counters in this game, they can still be reasonably spammed UNLESS you are hit by a Critical Burst, and you can actually COUNTER the CB to begin with, so that still makes not enough sense to abdicate removing it as a whole. You DON'T gain ANYTHING with it's loss, you actually LOSE alot more tools than just that.

 

[Argentus]

Seriously, the game was PRETTY stupid on the counter game before DOA5 changed it completely on it's ass. I have lost countless times to my brother not on skill, but due to how many chances he had to counter my moves DEAD. That's less punishment and more ridiculous leeway to victory



Missing my point...again. if we go back to the original style of DOA, we go back to the stall game we had before in which people would be too afraid to do ANYTHING short of Launchers and grabs or stick with fast characters even moreso than ever.

No one cares about making grabs work all of a sudden, we are talking about removing a concept that if anything, completely shows the drawbacks of counter spam as a whole as well as leeway to do some free damage to begin with, something DOA ALWAYS lacked.
This isn't strategy, it's mainly turtling.


That...solves absolutely nothing...

Many characters LOSE their tools and damage already because of the counter spam in past games and EVEN with the massie nerfing to counters in this game, they can still be reasonably spammed UNLESS you are hit by a Critical Burst, and you can actually COUNTER the CB to begin with, so that still makes not enough sense to abdicate removing it as a whole. You DON'T gain ANYTHING with it's loss, you actually LOSE alot more tools than just that.

...the main issue being that the imbalance was simply shifted from defense to offense in doa5. Now its an army of people just mashing what they think is their "best" combo.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

...the main issue being that the imbalance was simply shifted from defense to offense in doa5. Now its an army of people just mashing what they think is their "best" combo.

And that's still a million times better than basically being a grabfest that was in past DOAs. There was NEVER any intelligence used before DOA5U

 

[Mailifang]

Seriously, the game was PRETTY stupid on the counter game before DOA5 changed it completely on it's ass. I have lost countless times to my brother not on skill, but due to how many chances he had to counter my moves DEAD. That's less punishment and more ridiculous leeway to victory



Missing my point...again. if we go back to the original style of DOA, we go back to the stall game we had before in which people would be too afraid to do ANYTHING short of Launchers and grabs or stick with fast characters even moreso than ever.

No one cares about making grabs work all of a sudden, we are talking about removing a concept that if anything, completely shows the drawbacks of counter spam as a whole as well as leeway to do some free damage to begin with, something DOA ALWAYS lacked.
This isn't strategy, it's mainly turtling.


That...solves absolutely nothing...

Many characters LOSE their tools and damage already because of the counter spam in past games and EVEN with the massie nerfing to counters in this game, they can still be reasonably spammed UNLESS you are hit by a Critical Burst, and you can actually COUNTER the CB to begin with, so that still makes not enough sense to abdicate removing it as a whole. You DON'T gain ANYTHING with it's loss, you actually LOSE alot more tools than just that.

I grab all the time.You earned your victories in older DOA games by out thinking your opponent instead of out mashing them with pretty combos. Spamming counters got you killed in old DOA games more so than it does now as well.Because if you whiffed a counter in DOA2U and DOA 4 and got hit with a combo the damage was doubled.You got more damage off your opponent whiffing the counter whiff than countering your opponent.Like I said previous DOA's game play strictly revolved around the counter mechanic.

The characters didn't lose shit in the previous games because that's how the game was played for years until now with DOA5. I rarely see players counter CB.Let alone have a counter rate higher than 30% in DOA5. The characters always gained more tools over the years when it came to the movelists.So your losing me on the characters lost tools argument your trying to use.

Counter spamming is not the issue.The issue is counters are no longer the center of DOA game play.If you lost to counter spam back then you weren't playing the game right. People still do launchers,grabs,and pick fast characters.Only difference is that fast mix up characters are winning a lot of offline DOA tournies. Only non speed characters outside of helena,christie,sarah,Alpha and busa I've seen win a offline DOA 5 tourney here in the states is Gen Fu,Akira,Mila, and Rachel.But even they can open a can of whup ass on offensively in terms of attack speed,set ups,and mix ups. The fact of the matter is Helena,Christie, and Sarah would not be as viable or have won so many offline events if the countering wasn't so nerfed.Helena was considered shit tier until Mamba and XCalibre blades were raping top DOA names at tournies.

 

[Argentus]

And that's still a million times better than basically being a grabfest that was in past DOAs. There was NEVER any intelligence used before DOA5U

So you claim playing defense is mindless but are totally okay with mindless rush down.

See this is the hypocrisy I'm talking about.

All the intelligence is gone with 5u to make way for mahvel combos. As the idiots are won't to say, "he's awesome he can combo for days!".

That sentence would never have crossed their mind in past doas. You couldn't just memorize an input and then that's it. Reflexes and skill came into play of wasn't just "here learn this combo to do huge damage".

I still can't bring myself to focus on combos or I flat fall asleep due to how mindless it is....


But anyways. Back on topic. Power launchers.

Fuck em.

 

[Mailifang]

And that's still a million times better than basically being a grabfest that was in past DOAs. There was NEVER any intelligence used before DOA5U

I disagree.Older DOA games required more thinking.More mind games.And more strategy to get around or use the counter mechanic to your advantage. With DOA5 its maintain offensive pressure to break your opponent down get heavy stuns,CB, and continue the stun game for max dmg. Its not much thinking involved.Its more based around execution and timeing.

 

[Brute]

Next post that mentions something other than Power Launchers is getting deleted and the respective member is getting a warn.

edit: 1 down. Who else is feeling lucky?

 

[Tones]

@Xhominid The Demon Within That's where quick launch comes in, or delaying the CB to hit it after they try to counter it. You should have a percentile calculated from studying their habits or by training your opponent. CB gives you a goal to work towards and with.

You should always be looking to crush your opponent with max damage. Everything is an avenue for that, but what is the one thing that's called far in the currant and particular situation, once everything is factored in.

Next post that mentions something other than Power Launchers is getting deleted and the respective member is getting a warn.

edit: 1 down. Who else is feeling lucky?

Talking about risk reward scenarios is completely relevant to help compare the TRUE WORTH of PLs. "Mathematical risk management" something's worth is the value once all factors have been accounted for mathematically. But considering we're talking about behaviour and habits one has to include the time spend to ensure a tool is there when it is called for.

 

[Brute]

Thread locked.