System Power Launchers suck.

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Exactly.

Too much focus on combos, too little on combat.

As emp said, people just want guaranteed damage for everything, they don't want any risk in their fights (how much of an oxymoron is that?!)

One of my biggest gripes towards pb pl cb nonsense, is that it encourages that whole "just memorize this button input and you won't even have to try anymore, its guaranteed damage!"mentality. I wanna see fighting and thinking and outmaneuvering and prowess in my fighting games.

Instead, 85% of the time I see people just trying to spam guaranteed damage combos.

This is why I wish I had the resources to design my own fighter

I actually like the inclusion of stun application now and Critical Burst.

The main issue is the fact that in past DOA's, you would aim for more of Launcher's instead, meaning that it would be a counter spam fest till then with no real way to simply do free damage. Without CB, you'll be aiming for grabs instead.

 

[Chapstick]

I consider it a bad thing because without that "fear" of being countered players can just mash or apply offensive pressure all day with no real fear of losing from being counered.

 

[Brute]

It was funnier in Vanilla back when everyone had 270 health instead of 300.

0:50

 

[Mailifang]

And...It doesn't prove anything.

The facts are CH are still nerfed compared to previos DOA games. Hell last night I countered someone into a wall for like half their life bar with Leifang.That still didn't stop my opponent from getting up and try to restablish offensive pressure.Shes my main by the way. Still no one fears being countered as much as they did in previous DOA game.

The Psychological edge of using the counter game is gone.Unless you main Bayman. Even then that doesn't stop good helena,christie, and ayane players from just going after you. When a timely counter happens now it gets oohs and aaahs. In previous games it was expected. You got Ooohs and aaahs from great combos back then.Not anymore.Its expected.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

And...It doesn't prove anything.

lets make it a bit easier then, just mash this button whenever someone tries to throw a punch and you'll automatically win .

 

[Chapstick]

And...It doesn't prove anything.

? You said no one has to fear holds anymore because they don't do enough damage. That was 215 damage from two holds and I was just guessing when I did them :/ They weren't in stun but they still do massive damage when they are.

It was funnier in Vanilla back when everyone had 270 health instead of 300.

0:50

LOL

 

[Mailifang]

I actually like the inclusion of stun application now and Critical Burst.

The main issue is the fact that in past DOA's, you would aim for more of Launcher's instead, meaning that it would be a counter spam fest till then with no real way to simply do free damage. Without CB, you'll be aiming for grabs instead.

Exactly! Thats the way DOA should be.Its called Dead or Alive for a reason. Its not called POD (Punish and Destroy).

? You said no one has to fear holds anymore because they don't do enough damage. That was 215 damage from two holds and I was just guessing when I did them :/ They weren't in stun but they still do massive damage when they are.

LOL

And I'm right.Because how often do you get that much damage? Not often enough. In older DOA's you were always wary of it.In DOA5 no one cares.

 

[Brute]

Now, when you say "CH are still nerfed compared to previos DOA games" are you referring to defensive holds in general or the damage boost from NH to CH and HiC?

If the former: Holds were ridiculous in past DOA games due to the high reward and low risk of each one. Any competitive player will tell you that.

If the latter: They have always had a 125% damage revision on CH and 150% damage revision on HiC. It may have seemed like more due to the smaller life setting (240 as opposed to 300), but that's a different issue entirely.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

Exactly! Thats the way DOA should be.Its called Dead or Alive for a reason. Its not called POD (Punish and Destroy).

._.

And I'm right.Because how often do you get that much damage? Not often enough. In older DOA's you were always wary of it.In DOA5 no one cares.

really cause when i start off the match with a high punch advanced hold, even the most ignorant of players wont try it again

 

[Chapstick]

And I'm right.Because how often do you get that much damage? Not often enough. In older DOA's y were always wary of it.In DOA5 no one cares.

How often should I get 200 damage from guesses? o-o

Edit- personally I never use CB's because I'm afraid of getting held, instead I do stun launch stuff. I see a lot of people that do use CB's wait a little bit for a possible hold which will extend the stun and then do the CB once the active hold frames are over. They do this because they don't want to be held

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

I actually like the inclusion of stun application now and Critical Burst.

The main issue is the fact that in past DOA's, you would aim for more of Launcher's instead, meaning that it would be a counter spam fest till then with no real way to simply do free damage. Without CB, you'll be aiming for grabs instead.

That's bad how? I've got three at my disposal; yet, throw like crazy! Isn't it bad enough how stupidly you can still launch/combo/juggle on the ground! PLs by this logic are a waste! Why if you can combo-fuck on the ground? Fear somebody will hold? Just aim for it again! Simple! But what is wrong with throwing? You get more damage much, much, much easier. It's not as if people want 5-hour fights which is why CF happens!

Here's what irks me with PBs: with all the CF-ing, is it necessary to do a Critical Blast/Power-blow combo when the opponent has 2% health? And it just adds to the rinse & repeat manner that is already beyond absurd!

 

[Argentus]

Correction: Damage is guaranteed when just-framed.
Breaking out of it requires then that the attacker (Mila) mess-up. By that logic, you can "break" Lisa's Deja Vu if the attacker messes up their inputs.

And considering that a Mila player should know her timing better than the opponent, the attacker should by default have a much higher chance of success even if they're not just-framing it, not to mention that if each person same-frames the button the attacker (Mila) will win out. And even if it is broken because the Mila player sucks at hitting buttons, she's left a neutral frames, with a very scary neutral game. And of course, she has a million ways to get into this damn thing, many of them guaranteed. Like after her generic-ass holds. Including critical holds, which won't scale the damage revision.

So yes, the mount is fucking bullshit and that's that.

Meh. Still better than juggles.

And...It doesn't prove anything.

The facts are CH are still nerfed compared to previos DOA games. Hell last night I countered someone into a wall for like half their life bar with Leifang.That still didn't stop my opponent from getting up and try to restablish offensive pressure.Shes my main by the way. Still no one fears being countered as much as they did in previous DOA game.

The Psychological edge of using the counter game is gone.Unless you main Bayman. Even then that doesn't stop good helena,christie, and ayane players from just going after you. When a timely counter happens now it gets oohs and aaahs. In previous games it was expected. You got Ooohs and aaahs from great combos back then.Not anymore.Its expected.

Exactly. That was my complaint of lowered hold damage. Nobody is afraid of them and just resumes pressure trying to do their "mash to win" combos.

People used to be terrified of counters and be very careful and think things through. If you get read you pay for it.

Now? Mash mash mash mash mash mash mash. Because why not? One lucky jab of the mashing gets through and its a ton of damage. Who cares if you get countered once or twice? Mash away the combo will make up for it!

How often should I get 200 damage from guesses? o-o

Edit- personally I never use CB's because I'm afraid of getting held, instead I do stun launch stuff. I see a lot of people that do use CB's wait a little bit for a possible hold which will extend the stun and then do the CB once the active hold frames are over. They do this because they don't want to be held

Lol if you are getting 200 off guesses then the opponent should learn some mixups. Just guessing will just your ass beat most of the time.

 

[Mailifang]

._.



really cause when i start off the match with a high punch advanced hold, even the most ignorant of players wont try it again

I highly doubt that. Not the kids these days and not in this game.Especially online lol.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

wrong

3-5 lucky jabs get through + a launcher, and you get decent damage

on the other hand you get lucky with ONE hold and you get the same damage

strikers have an up ground battle in this game.

I highly doubt that. Not the kids these days and not in this game.Especially online lol.

apparently you would, since according to you they are no threat.

 

[Mailifang]

How often should I get 200 damage from guesses? o-o

Edit- personally I never use CB's because I'm afraid of getting held, instead I do stun launch stuff. I see a lot of people that do use CB's wait a little bit for a possible hold which will extend the stun and then do the CB once the active hold frames are over. They do this because they don't want to be held

In past DOA's it wasn't always guessing.Because you could set people up to be countered. In DOA5 you can try to do it but the success rate of executing it is low compared to previous games. Back then Master used to set up his opponents for the Izuna Drop counter set up all day. Now-a-days he doesn't do it that often. He as adapted to DOA5's Punish or Die gameplay. So his combo game is twice as evil.

 

[Brute]

Meh. Still better than juggles.

No.

Exactly. That was my complaint of lowered hold damage. Nobody is afraid of them and just resumes pressure trying to do their "mash to win" combos.

Everyone should be afraid of holds. Those are aren't are not afraid of holds because they're character has enough stupidly equal mix-up options that the chance of being held is neglectfully low. It has nothing to do with the reward/punishment of the holds if successful. When successful, holds are still terrifying. The issue is more with certain characters' option toolset at any given time than the nature of holds themselves.

People used to be terrified of counters and be very careful and think things through. If you get read you pay for it.

People used to be afraid to attack because there was a risk/reward. There was barely any risk to hold, since the active frames were larger and the recovery frames way too short. This made every fight a pissing contest between who was dumb enough to hit a button first. There was nothing good about that system.

Now? Mash mash mash mash mash mash mash. Because why not? One lucky jab of the mashing gets through and its a ton of damage. Who cares if you get countered once or twice? Mash away the combo will make up for it!

Again, that's a byproduct of option choice, not of holds. There were less silly mixups available to most characters int eh past games, meaning the defender had a higher chance to accurately read what the attacker was going to do. As such, the attacker was more reluctant. It's not to to the relative reward of a successful hold.

 

[Mailifang]

wrong

3-5 lucky jabs get through + a launcher, and you get decent damage

on the other hand you get lucky with ONE hold and you get the same damage

strikers have an up ground battle in this game.



apparently you would, since according to you they are no threat.

Because they are no threat in DOA5 compared to the older games. Brute just mentioned how ridiculous holds were in older games. I play DOA5 about 20 something hours a week on and offline. I own most ofl the DOA games on various consoles So I know what I'm talking about. I wouldn't post this shit if it wasn't true.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

I highly doubt that. Not the kids these days and not in this game.Especially online lol.

He has a point though! What I do often is condition the opponent to look for something. Let them catch it a few times to get them thinking I won't do it anymore. There's a game in intentionally doing stuff, too! Catch Mid K all day, only to get beat by a Low K or something else. (ie: with Alpha - 2H+K, and you've got a load of throws open)

And yeah, online isn't the best barometer! haha

 

[Tones]

The main issue is the fact that in past DOA's, you would aim for more of Launcher's instead, meaning that it would be a counter spam fest till then with no real way to simply do free damage. Without CB, you'll be aiming for grabs instead.

Extend the stun or Fast launching. Now you have to option to fast launch, extend the stung to gain a guaranteed launcher PL or PB.

I honestly prefer PL´s 1000 times over PB's.

Why's that.

@Mailifang about your counter wall situation. "A surrounded army must be given a way out" Given that they can't wake up kick. Either they managed to find a break in your offensive and turned on their own or give them a break by not truning yours on. Counters break rhythm and allow for you to set yourself to play the distance you want. Counters are also used to take away your opponent's tools of strengths. You should teach your opponent to be scared of holds. In regards to punish and destroy, any time your opponent is in a negative situation you want to capitalize with the goal to crush. You've got some intelligence to what you're saying but you're half all over the place.

@Mailifang ffs, go make your own "Counter Suck" thread.

It sounds like you guys are having a different experience with the game. I'm chopping that up to online favouring the offensive.

We're all on the same page as qualifications, unless you crush in tournaments now or before hand or you're are a community leader or veteran in your offline scene.

 

[Mailifang]

wrong

3-5 lucky jabs get through + a launcher, and you get decent damage

on the other hand you get lucky with ONE hold and you get the same damage

strikers have an up ground battle in th.

In theory maybe.But not in actual game play. People will still go on offensive and pressure no matter what damage you do off of counter in DOA5. Counters in DOA shouldn't always be luck.They were a strategic game play element. Now they are not much of a factor other than disrupting momentum.