Camel with 2 thumbs
Well-Known Member
One thing I see a lot nyos do when they enter the hiten-no-mai stance is that they either end their combos with an air throw or a chest ram, and while these are great options for damage or positioning, there is a third option this stance offers and that is putting your opponent into a pseudo force tech situation.
Mind you this ONLY works if you hit your opponent with a hiten-no-mai 5pp while they’re airborne (on light weights you may be able sneak in two reps of hiten-no-mai 5pp, but on middle and heavy weights you’ll definitely want to go for one rep) once you’ve done that hitting them with a hiten-no-mai 2k will knock them down and you will be able to force tech the opponent with either 2p or 2k. Mind you this is a pseudo force tech situation so while they won’t be able to wake up kick, it’ll force them to tech roll if they don’t wanna take damage.
Unfortunately, because only the 2nd hit of 2pp/2kk will force them to rise (or two hits of 2p), this isn’t something you can just mash out and expect the opponent to get up. If they DON’T tech roll, Mashing 2pp will cause the 2nd hit to whiff, leaving you at disadvantage and at the mercy of their wake up. So if you don’t care about timing, you could mash out 2kk, however if they DO end up tech rolling, a mashed 2kk will leave you at hella disadvantage, again putting you in tricky spot. Nyo unfortunately doesn’t have the luxury of a (practical) single hit move that forces the opponent to rise (4p+k p does force tech in a single hit, but unless your opponent is knocked down full screen and refuses to get up, there’s no way you’re gonna land it), and since this gives the opponent two opportunities to tech roll, it’s makes things a little trickier
so if you’re going for the force tech, use 2pp and delay the second hit, this way if they do tech roll immediately, they’ll get hit with the second hit of 2pp giving you a nice bit of advantage, and if they don’t tech roll, you force them to rise with the second hit of 2pp, again leaving you with a nice bit of advantage, and if they tech roll before the delayed second p hits, they’ll have a hard time punishing your whiffed string because of the newly created space between you and your opponent (since ein’s 236p or 46p can’t whiff punish it, Im convinced it’s pretty much safe to whiff). And if they start catching on to your shenanigans and starting blocking low or countering low after a tech roll, that’s when you start mixing it up with 2p into low throw or 2p into mid, the ball is still in your court.
I dunno if most nyo mains already know this, in which case this post was a major waste of time but hopefully it’ll at least help some of you guys and gals out there. I just feel like the pseudo force tech is a much more viable option than the air throw or the chest ram. The air throw does good damage (39-41 pts, AND it’s unscaled), but it leaves you standing pretty close to your opponent and you can’t guarantee anything after that knock down, 2k can be avoided by rolling, 8p+k will whiff if they don’t do wake up kick, you get the damage but you still have to worry about their wake up. The chest ram knocks players full screen, but depending on certain matchups the LAST thing you wanna do is give your opponent a fullscreen of space to work with (ayane, hayabusa, and hayate are a few notable examples). With the pseudo force tech, you don’t have to worry about wake ups, you keep your opponents near you, and you get to be plus, what more could you ask for
UPDATE!
Remember what I said about not mashing 2pp after you hit them with the 2k? well here's a small amendment to that, if your opponent tech rolls the first time they hit the ground and they hit a really fast mid the second they're back in control, it can actually beat out the delayed 2nd hit of 2pp. So here's the amendment, mash the 2pp string IF your opponent is tech rolling the first time they're on the ground and they're coming out of the gate swinging with fast mids (Kasumis' 7K or Gen fus' 6p for example)
Mind you this ONLY works if you hit your opponent with a hiten-no-mai 5pp while they’re airborne (on light weights you may be able sneak in two reps of hiten-no-mai 5pp, but on middle and heavy weights you’ll definitely want to go for one rep) once you’ve done that hitting them with a hiten-no-mai 2k will knock them down and you will be able to force tech the opponent with either 2p or 2k. Mind you this is a pseudo force tech situation so while they won’t be able to wake up kick, it’ll force them to tech roll if they don’t wanna take damage.
Unfortunately, because only the 2nd hit of 2pp/2kk will force them to rise (or two hits of 2p), this isn’t something you can just mash out and expect the opponent to get up. If they DON’T tech roll, Mashing 2pp will cause the 2nd hit to whiff, leaving you at disadvantage and at the mercy of their wake up. So if you don’t care about timing, you could mash out 2kk, however if they DO end up tech rolling, a mashed 2kk will leave you at hella disadvantage, again putting you in tricky spot. Nyo unfortunately doesn’t have the luxury of a (practical) single hit move that forces the opponent to rise (4p+k p does force tech in a single hit, but unless your opponent is knocked down full screen and refuses to get up, there’s no way you’re gonna land it), and since this gives the opponent two opportunities to tech roll, it’s makes things a little trickier
so if you’re going for the force tech, use 2pp and delay the second hit, this way if they do tech roll immediately, they’ll get hit with the second hit of 2pp giving you a nice bit of advantage, and if they don’t tech roll, you force them to rise with the second hit of 2pp, again leaving you with a nice bit of advantage, and if they tech roll before the delayed second p hits, they’ll have a hard time punishing your whiffed string because of the newly created space between you and your opponent (since ein’s 236p or 46p can’t whiff punish it, Im convinced it’s pretty much safe to whiff). And if they start catching on to your shenanigans and starting blocking low or countering low after a tech roll, that’s when you start mixing it up with 2p into low throw or 2p into mid, the ball is still in your court.
I dunno if most nyo mains already know this, in which case this post was a major waste of time but hopefully it’ll at least help some of you guys and gals out there. I just feel like the pseudo force tech is a much more viable option than the air throw or the chest ram. The air throw does good damage (39-41 pts, AND it’s unscaled), but it leaves you standing pretty close to your opponent and you can’t guarantee anything after that knock down, 2k can be avoided by rolling, 8p+k will whiff if they don’t do wake up kick, you get the damage but you still have to worry about their wake up. The chest ram knocks players full screen, but depending on certain matchups the LAST thing you wanna do is give your opponent a fullscreen of space to work with (ayane, hayabusa, and hayate are a few notable examples). With the pseudo force tech, you don’t have to worry about wake ups, you keep your opponents near you, and you get to be plus, what more could you ask for
UPDATE!
Remember what I said about not mashing 2pp after you hit them with the 2k? well here's a small amendment to that, if your opponent tech rolls the first time they hit the ground and they hit a really fast mid the second they're back in control, it can actually beat out the delayed 2nd hit of 2pp. So here's the amendment, mash the 2pp string IF your opponent is tech rolling the first time they're on the ground and they're coming out of the gate swinging with fast mids (Kasumis' 7K or Gen fus' 6p for example)
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