Hello, just transferring a topic from DOAWorld.
I'll make a setup that gives the possibility to see what are safe moves on block, including frame traps and so on.
In this first section I'll present frame advantage/disadvantage on block, and it will then depend on the follow up move, in order to tell if it is safe or close to safe moves.
In the second section I'll present frames for the fastest/most likely follow up attacks.
Logic in general would be:
Frames to hit opponent < Opponents hit frames = You will hit (unless block)
Frames to hit opponent < Frame advantage + Opponents hit frames = You will hit (unless block)
Frames to hit opponent < Frame advantage = You will hit (not blockable)
Frames to hit opponent = Opponents hit frames = Highest damage wins (in 5U) (In 5 it is speed on character)
Example:
Hitomi's will give -1 frame on block, and initial start up is 10 frames.
Bass's lowest frame attack is 13.
So if Hitomi spam this move the setup between the sets will be 10 < -1 + 13 = 12 if Bass retaliates => Hitomi wins.
She will do this every time between the movesets if Bass keeps blocking and wait for an opening at the string end.
Unless Bass either Hold, Crouch last move (or attack between and ), then he won't be able to retaliate.
However, Christie's got 9 frames, so she can retaliate after ended moveset because:
10 is not < -1 + 9 = 8 => Christie wins.
For more information watch Emperor Cow's "Strike Video".
My source will be FSD's Frame Data where these exist.
Other vice it will be field testing or input by others.
Corrections would be more than welcome.
Akira: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
= 16
= 13 GB
= 12
,/ = 6 GB
,,/ = 6 GB
,/ = 6 GB
= 6 GB
= 5
= 1 to 5
= +0
= 1
= 1
= 1
= -1
= -2
= -3
= -3
= -3
Alpha152:
No data - Pending
Ayane:
= 23 (GB)
= 23 (GB)
= 23 (GB)
or similar end = 19 (GB)
= 19 (GB)
= 18
In Shimo Stance = 17 (GB)
= 15
= 15
= 14 (GB)
= 13
= 10
= 10
and or or = 7
and or or = 7
= 5 (GB)
In Soka stance = 5 (GB)
= 3
= 2
= 1
= 1
= 0
= 0
= 0
= -1
Bass:
(fully charged) = 24 (GB)
= 16 (GB)
(charged) = 10 (GB)
= 6 (GB)
(semi-charged) = 6 (GB)
= 4 (GB)
= 3 (GB)
= 2 (GB)
Back turned = 1 (GB)
= 0 (GB)
= -2 (GB)
= -2
= -2
= -2
Bayman: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
ROLL +9
is +9.
= +1
Brad:
No data - Pending
Christie:
No data - Pending
Ein:
No data - Pending
Eliot:
(fully charged) = 18
= 4
= 2
= -1
(not charged) = -1
Gen Fu:
No data - Pending
Ryu Hayabusa: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
// = +9
= +2
= +2
= +6 and into Ongyoin
= +1 and into Ongyoin
Ongyoin = +1 and into Ongyoin again
= +0
= +0
= +10 with back-turned opponent.
Ongyoin = +9
Hayate: (pending 5U)
(charged) = +14
, = +7
,, = +7
,, = +7
= +7
:[[P]]: = +3
:[[P]]: = +3
:[[P]]: = +3
:[[P]]: = +3
= +3
:[[p+k]]: = +3
= +2
= +2
= +1
/, = +0
Throw Advantages
= +9
Helena: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
:[[P]]: > +9 (When fully charged)
= +7
(BT) > +7
:[[P]]: > +2 (When fully charged)
= +1 and into Bokuho
Hitomi:
(charged) = 24 (GB)
(charged) (CP) = 17 (GB)
(charged) = 8 (GB)
(charged) = 8 (GB)
(charged) = 8 (GB)
(not charged) = 5 (GB)
(charged) = 4 (GB)
(charged) = 3 (GB)
= 3 (GB)
= -1 (Also for all moves ending with this)
= -1 (turn back)
= -2
= -2
= -3
= -3
= -3
Hold Advantages
(Low Kick) = 5
= 7
Throw Advantages
= 10
Jacky:
No data - Pending
Jann Lee:
No data - Pending
Kasumi:
(charge) = 13 GB
= 1 GB
= -3
= -3
= -3
= -4
= -5
= -5
= -5
Kokoro:
(fully charged) = 18
= 2
Heichu = 2
= 1
= 0
= 0
= 0
(not charged) = 0
(back turned) = 0
= -2
= -3
= -3
= -3
= -4
Lei Fang: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
:[[P]]: = +11
= +5
= +5
= +5
Unshu = +20
Leon:
No data - Pending
Lisa:
No data - Pending
Mila:
(charged) = 17 (GB)
(charged) = 15 (GB)
= 7 (GB)
= 3 (GB)
= -1
= -3
Momiji:
No data - Pending
Pai:
No data - Pending
Rachel:
No data - Pending
Rig: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
= +2 into Bending
= +2 into Bending
= +1 into Bending
= +1 into Bending
= +10 into Bending
BND = +2
BND = +2
BND = +10
Sarah:
(charged PB) = 17 GB
= 9 GB
Stepping Forward = 6 GB => BS
Flamingo = 4
= 4
= 4
= 3
= 3
= 2
= 1
Flamingo = 0
= -1 => BT
(BT) = -1
Flamingo = -1
= -2
= -2
= -2
= -2
(BS) = -2
Stepping Forward = -2
Stepping Forward = -3
(BT) = -3
SS = -3
= -3
(BT) = -3
= -3
= -3
= -3
= -4
= -4
= -4
= -4
Stepping = -4
Note: There are few moves that goes past -5-6 on block.
High frame rate moves would then almost always be unsafe even after block.
Tina: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
= +1 to +5 depending on opponent and distance.
= +6
= +9
= +2
= +0
= +11
// = +1
= between +0 and +3
(BT) = +3
= between +1 and +6
= +9
Zack:
No data - Pending
Will be continued.
I'll make a setup that gives the possibility to see what are safe moves on block, including frame traps and so on.
In this first section I'll present frame advantage/disadvantage on block, and it will then depend on the follow up move, in order to tell if it is safe or close to safe moves.
In the second section I'll present frames for the fastest/most likely follow up attacks.
Logic in general would be:
Frames to hit opponent < Opponents hit frames = You will hit (unless block)
Frames to hit opponent < Frame advantage + Opponents hit frames = You will hit (unless block)
Frames to hit opponent < Frame advantage = You will hit (not blockable)
Frames to hit opponent = Opponents hit frames = Highest damage wins (in 5U) (In 5 it is speed on character)
Example:
Hitomi's will give -1 frame on block, and initial start up is 10 frames.
Bass's lowest frame attack is 13.
So if Hitomi spam this move the setup between the sets will be 10 < -1 + 13 = 12 if Bass retaliates => Hitomi wins.
She will do this every time between the movesets if Bass keeps blocking and wait for an opening at the string end.
Unless Bass either Hold, Crouch last move (or attack between and ), then he won't be able to retaliate.
However, Christie's got 9 frames, so she can retaliate after ended moveset because:
10 is not < -1 + 9 = 8 => Christie wins.
For more information watch Emperor Cow's "Strike Video".
My source will be FSD's Frame Data where these exist.
Other vice it will be field testing or input by others.
Corrections would be more than welcome.
Akira: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
= 16
= 13 GB
= 12
,/ = 6 GB
,,/ = 6 GB
,/ = 6 GB
= 6 GB
= 5
= 1 to 5
= +0
= 1
= 1
= -1
= -2
= -3
= -3
= -3
Alpha152:
No data - Pending
Ayane:
= 23 (GB)
= 23 (GB)
= 23 (GB)
or similar end = 19 (GB)
= 19 (GB)
= 18
In Shimo Stance = 17 (GB)
= 15
= 15
= 13
= 10
= 10
and or or = 7
and or or = 7
= 5 (GB)
In Soka stance = 5 (GB)
= 3
= 2
= 1
= 1
= 0
= 0
= 0
= -1
Bass:
(fully charged) = 24 (GB)
= 16 (GB)
(charged) = 10 (GB)
= 6 (GB)
(semi-charged) = 6 (GB)
= 4 (GB)
= 3 (GB)
= 2 (GB)
Back turned = 1 (GB)
= 0 (GB)
= -2 (GB)
= -2
= -2
= -2
Bayman: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
ROLL +9
is +9.
= +1
Brad:
No data - Pending
Christie:
No data - Pending
Ein:
No data - Pending
Eliot:
(fully charged) = 18
= 4
= 2
= -1
(not charged) = -1
Gen Fu:
No data - Pending
Ryu Hayabusa: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
// = +9
= +2
= +2
= +6 and into Ongyoin
= +1 and into Ongyoin
Ongyoin = +1 and into Ongyoin again
= +0
= +0
= +10 with back-turned opponent.
Ongyoin = +9
Hayate: (pending 5U)
(charged) = +14
, = +7
,, = +7
,, = +7
= +7
:[[P]]: = +3
:[[P]]: = +3
:[[P]]: = +3
:[[P]]: = +3
= +3
:[[p+k]]: = +3
= +2
= +2
= +1
/, = +0
Throw Advantages
= +9
Helena: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
:[[P]]: > +9 (When fully charged)
= +7
(BT) > +7
:[[P]]: > +2 (When fully charged)
= +1 and into Bokuho
Hitomi:
(charged) = 24 (GB)
(charged) (CP) = 17 (GB)
(charged) = 8 (GB)
(charged) = 8 (GB)
(charged) = 8 (GB)
(not charged) = 5 (GB)
(charged) = 4 (GB)
(charged) = 3 (GB)
= 3 (GB)
= -1 (Also for all moves ending with this)
= -1 (turn back)
= -2
= -2
= -3
= -3
= -3
Hold Advantages
Throw Advantages
Jacky:
No data - Pending
Jann Lee:
No data - Pending
Kasumi:
(charge) = 13 GB
= 1 GB
= -3
= -3
= -3
= -4
= -5
= -5
= -5
Kokoro:
(fully charged) = 18
= 2
Heichu = 2
= 1
= 0
= 0
= 0
(not charged) = 0
(back turned) = 0
= -2
= -3
= -3
= -3
= -4
Lei Fang: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
:[[P]]: = +11
= +5
= +5
= +5
Unshu = +20
Leon:
No data - Pending
Lisa:
No data - Pending
Mila:
(charged) = 17 (GB)
(charged) = 15 (GB)
= 7 (GB)
= 3 (GB)
= -1
= -3
Momiji:
No data - Pending
Pai:
No data - Pending
Rachel:
No data - Pending
Rig: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
= +2 into Bending
= +2 into Bending
= +1 into Bending
= +1 into Bending
= +10 into Bending
BND = +2
BND = +2
BND = +10
Sarah:
(charged PB) = 17 GB
= 9 GB
Stepping Forward = 6 GB => BS
Flamingo = 4
= 4
= 4
= 3
= 3
= 2
= 1
Flamingo = 0
= -1 => BT
(BT) = -1
Flamingo = -1
= -2
= -2
= -2
= -2
(BS) = -2
Stepping Forward = -2
Stepping Forward = -3
(BT) = -3
SS = -3
= -3
(BT) = -3
= -3
= -3
= -3
= -4
= -4
= -4
= -4
Stepping = -4
Note: There are few moves that goes past -5-6 on block.
High frame rate moves would then almost always be unsafe even after block.
Tina: (Incomplete - pending 5U)
= +1 to +5 depending on opponent and distance.
= +6
= +9
= +2
= +0
= +11
// = +1
= between +0 and +3
(BT) = +3
= between +1 and +6
= +9
Zack:
No data - Pending
Will be continued.