Sidestep from disadvantage: some questions

[Rikuto]

Side step feels very random to me. I try to use it in smart ways and it really doesn't work in a manner it should. Like with Hayate I do 2p so I'm at neutral, I go for a SS and get hit. Oh I'm at a slight frame disadvantage. I'm gonna risk a SS, chances are they won't throw...smack! Might just be me needing to spend more time with it though. It seems to be very situation based.

It's always situation based. If it was a "works against everything at disadvantage" option it would be overpowered as hell.

The most efficient method of using it is to kill an opponents delayed string mindgames.

If he is just before the last hit if his string and you know that neither of his "mixup" options track, stepping into an attack should beat anything he can potentially do.

 

[just_me]

We say i9 for initial 9 frames. 9i is what I see SC players use and it means impact frame 9. An i9 in DOA is a 10i in SC.

Most SC players also have the "i" in front, don't they? I've never seen the "i" after the number, except... here...
I still don't really get why you did this, so confusing at first and since there is so much "-4 is Grappler punishable, they have i4 throws", it seems to confuse a lot of people here as well.
And then there is stuff like "i10 recovery frames"... which makes no sense to me at all. That just completely butchers the semantics.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I can't explain to you why 'we' did this. The community just grew on its own based on the knowledge of other players that became a part of it.

I don't like the term "slow escape" and prefer "stagger escape" but people still use "slow escape", or the fact that a 2-in-1 means "option select" in other communities, but to us it's a 2 hit natural combo. Most of the players who used such lingo didn't participate in the community when the terms were coming up.

Here are the facts though, in dead or alive 5 when it counts its frames for an attack it's registering the initial frames. That has to be taken into account by the player to +1 it for when the hit frame is.

Just like a different language for a different country, sometimes you just have to understand the lingo. Unfortunately, for the DOA Community it's always said it needs a 9 frame attack to punish a -10 attack. There was no mandate decreeing it, just players who talked and shared strategies.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

It's always situation based. If it was a "works against everything at disadvantage" option it would be overpowered as hell.

The most efficient method of using it is to kill an opponents delayed string mindgames.

If he is just before the last hit if his string and you know that neither of his "mixup" options track, stepping into an attack should beat anything he can potentially do.

This is how I've been attempting to apply side stepping so far. Really good to know I had the right idea. Just need to continue studying the attacks that track and do not track.

 

[MajesticBlue]

It just makes me sad to see it is so limited I guess. Went into training to test it a little better. At neutral I am able to beat the side step with damn near anything. My fastest non tracking mid hits. My non tracking launchers hit. It must just be there to beat string delay and mixups, like you said. I at least hoped you could use it to beat out some generic pokes.

 

[Rikuto]

It just makes me sad to see it is so limited I guess. Went into training to test it a little better. At neutral I am able to beat the side step with damn near anything. My fastest non tracking mid hits. My non tracking launchers hit. It must just be there to beat string delay and mixups, like you said. I at least hoped you could use it to beat out some generic pokes.

You can. It's just not an automatic "beat everything in a string from a single step" function though. It doesn't work that way in VF, either.

The correct application of neutral dodging is done at 2:54.

In order to do that with any level of success, you have to bait a specific kind of response like I did though. Play at range, goad them into using slower, longer ranged attacks with more recovery to keep you out, and once they get that tunnel vision you take advantage of the third dimension.

 

[MajesticBlue]

Ah, I see. The only other game I play with a SS is Tekken, so I went in trying to use it like that. Doa SS does feel like it works better as a spacing tool more so then general evasion. Like knowing their options at range 2 or 3 kinda thing. Thanks for the example.

 

[Rikuto]

At the current level of play I find it better for evading the tail-end of an attack string rather than the front end of one, IF you're already in their face. An exception to that would be if you have a character with special evasive steps like Christie, Bayman or Hayate. The fact they can step while also evading highs/standing throws tends to decrease the risk somewhat.


You are going to see me tank rolling the hell out of people though. It's too good.

 

[shinryu]

Bit of a necro, but how fast can you get into sidestep from wakeup or a tech roll? Is it a viable defense against okizeme attempts? In VF5FS there's a small window after teching where you can't evade, and I'm wondering if there's something similar here.

 

[Stikku]

Command sidestepping is a feature that should have never been introduced to Dead or Alive, at least in the way it was for DOA5. Freestep dodging was better, and command sidestepping actually makes characters who had their own unique side-step attacks seem useless, considering most side-step attacks were simple 1-hit attacks that either knocked down or knocked away into a wall.

The benefit of command side-stepping into a combo mix-up heavily outweighs the benefit of actual knockback side-step attacks. SS makes characters play more similar to each other than ever before, rather than being more unique. SS also detracts from the Triangle System. SS = Silly Shit.

DOA5 is unfinished. It literally should not have been released. It should not have been delivered to the public in the state it was on September 25th, 2012. It's just wrong.

 

[virtuaPAI]

Bit of a necro, but how fast can you get into sidestep from wakeup or a tech roll? Is it a viable defense against okizeme attempts? In VF5FS there's a small window after teching where you can't evade, and I'm wondering if there's something similar here.

-The best way to use Side stepping in Doa is when you know your opponent will be using a lot of short attack bursts, Mid string when the followup attack is slow, and at the end of strings. Currently everyone is still getting used to the idea of SS since half the cast in both doa3 and Doa4 had them. Even than, it was rarely used. When players get a better grasp of the game and are more familiar with the whole usage of stepping, we will see it become an integral part of high level play.

-It takes 25 frames to go through the frames of a SS. If it is anything like past doa's, it would be 0/0/25. So from any form of movement, it would take 1 frame to go into SS. As for wake up, there is no special wake up scenarios like Vf where a certain knockdown will cause the wake up kick to become linear. If anything, SS would be good against special character wakeups that are linear.