SRK: Community Matters – Or Why A Game Is Legitimate Only If There Are People Playing It

synce

Well-Known Member
Main Character
Tengu
Boobs have nothing to do with anything... You need to actually try playing other fighting games to understand why people ignore DOA.

I can honestly say I've been ignoring all Tekken games after T3 and all VF games EVER until DOA5. After spending some time with DOA5 I tried TTT2 and found it more fun, then I tried VF5FS and found it even BETTER.

For me it boils down to the "get out of jail free" mentality with DOA5's counter system. In other fighting games if you make a mistake you're punished hard. In DOA5 if you make a mistake you don't have to be punished at all if you guess right regardless of which character you pick.

That's why DOA will never be taken seriously, not the boobs.
 

Zeo

Well-Known Member
Main Character
Gamertag
ZeoRebirth
Boobs have nothing to do with anything... You need to actually try playing other fighting games to understand why people ignore DOA.

I can honestly say I've been ignoring all Tekken games after T3 and all VF games EVER until DOA5. After spending some time with DOA5 I tried TTT2 and found it more fun, then I tried VF5FS and found it even BETTER.

For me it boils down to the "get out of jail free" mentality with DOA5's counter system. In other fighting games if you make a mistake you're punished hard. In DOA5 if you make a mistake you don't have to be punished at all if you guess right regardless of which character you pick.

That's why DOA will never be taken seriously, not the boobs.
Which is probably why 3.1 was so highly regarded in the series. Holds had just as much of a risk if not more than the reward and holding incorrectly got you punished dearly for it. In addition to that, the stun game didn't force you to hold and automatically make it the best option.

If DOA5 added more guaranteed damage situations for every character and tweaked the stun system a bit it would easily be the best DOA in the series (...gameplay wise anyway). The hold system however will always be there, if it simply existing is the primary reason for DOA never being taken seriously I don't think it ever will be.
 

Sly Bass

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Main Character
Brad Wong
Gamertag
Sly Bass
PSN ID
SlyBass
I personally enjoy the hold system, even if I get caught by a hold and lose the match. It breaks up the menotany of the fighting game. How much fun is it for an opponent to enter into a combo string and then there is NOTHING you can do but accept your punishment? Some of those punishments take over half your health bar. Then to have it happen all the time? That's not skill at that point, that's just your ability to execute an OP combo over and over. I like the idea of not feeling safe, ever. It forces you to change your tactics rather than to play it by the books. It adds to the excitement. You got a hold happy opponent? Throw him. Changing your style per opponent is awesome and it's what keeps the game fresh.
 
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Matt Ponton

Owner
Staff member
Administrator
Glen Burnie, MD
Main Character
Mai Shiranui
Gamertag
Sorwah
PSN ID
Sorwah
Steam
Sorwah
I personally enjoy the hold system, even if I get caught by a hold and lose the match. It breaks up the menotany of the fighting game. How much fun is it for an opponent to enter into a combo string and then there is NOTHING you can do but accept your punishment? Some of those punishments take over half your health bar. Then to have it happen all the time? That's not skill at that point, that's just your ability to execute an OP combo over and over. I like the idea of not feeling safe, ever. It forces you to change your tactics rather than to play it by the books. It adds to the excitement. You got a hold happy opponent? Throw him. Changing your style per opponent is awesome and it's what keeps the game fresh.
To many, that time where others "sit there and do nothing as they are being juggled" are times where they are thinking about post-juggle. They've already accepted they lost X-amount of life where the game had ended, and thinking ahead to the next moment for when the game restarts once their back to neutral. Stuff like "Damn, I knew I shouldn't have risked doing that unsafe attack for a small reward. But now I know he's looking to actually punish stuff the correct way and won't let me get away with random attacks, so next time I'll try pressuring him with my 6P string mix-up that forces him to guess between the launcher or additional pressure."

In shorter words, using that time where they can't escape the punishment to reflect on how to change their game up.
 

Jiraiya-Sama2390

Active Member
Boobs have nothing to do with anything... You need to actually try playing other fighting games to understand why people ignore DOA.

I can honestly say I've been ignoring all Tekken games after T3 and all VF games EVER until DOA5. After spending some time with DOA5 I tried TTT2 and found it more fun, then I tried VF5FS and found it even BETTER.

For me it boils down to the "get out of jail free" mentality with DOA5's counter system. In other fighting games if you make a mistake you're punished hard. In DOA5 if you make a mistake you don't have to be punished at all if you guess right regardless of which character you pick.

That's why DOA will never be taken seriously, not the boobs.
The frame adv, or lack thereof, is another reason why DOA will never be taken seriously, IMO
 

Dr. Teeth

Active Member
Standard Donor
The frame adv, or lack thereof, is another reason why DOA will never be taken seriously, IMO
Very true, but that's another reason why 3.1 was so solid. It was still pretty "DOAish" as far as safety goes, but every character except for maybe Brad had frame traps and moves that were safe and + on block. And that's moves with an "s," as in more than one.
 

Jiraiya-Sama2390

Active Member
Very true, but that's another reason why 3.1 was so solid. It was still pretty "DOAish" as far as safety goes, but every character except for maybe Brad had frame traps and moves that were safe and + on block. And that's moves with an "s," as in more than one.
Another thing that irks me about the game is the punishment, grabs? On top of that, they don't do that much damage and offers no oki options AFAIK, as opposed to the punishment in VF & Tekken
 

Dr. Teeth

Active Member
Standard Donor
Another thing that irks me about the game is the punishment, grabs? On top of that, they don't do that much damage and offers no oki options AFAIK, as opposed to the punishment in VF & Tekken
Punishment not doing enough damage is strictly a problem in 5. Between 4-5 they buffed the lifebar so that now the new normal setting is the old largest. The older games in the series don't have that problem. Again, going back to 3.1. Throws in that game hurt. A lot. If you do something unsafe and your opponent punishes you for it, expect a sizable chunk of your life bar to be gone.

And the oki game, you're right. It's not as good as Tekken and VF, mainly because it doesn't really exist. If an opponent is grounded in DOA, that means they can take advantage of bullshit wakeup kicks, so there's no real way for the standing player to continue to apply pressure or force a mixup after a knock down safely. As a matter of fact, the grounded player has the advantage since wakeup kicks give such a good stun and allows the player to start mixing up if they connect. Compare that to VF and Tekken where wakeup kicks are slower, less safe, and lead to less stuff and it's easy to see why they're such a problem. DOA 4 and 5 have force teching and 3.1's excellent freestep system gives you ways to maneuver past them (among other things. They can be stuffed rather easily also), but they're kind of an issue with the franchise as a whole.
 

Jiraiya-Sama2390

Active Member
Punishment not doing enough damage is strictly a problem in 5. Between 4-5 they buffed the lifebar so that now the new normal setting is the old largest. The older games in the series don't have that problem. Again, going back to 3.1. Throws in that game hurt. A lot. If you do something unsafe and your opponent punishes you for it, expect a sizable chunk of your life bar to be gone.

And the oki game, you're right. It's not as good as Tekken and VF, mainly because it doesn't really exist. If an opponent is grounded in DOA, that means they can take advantage of bullshit wakeup kicks, so there's no real way for the standing player to continue to apply pressure or force a mixup after a knock down safely. As a matter of fact, the grounded player has the advantage since wakeup kicks give such a good stun and allows the player to start mixing up if they connect. Compare that to VF and Tekken where wakeup kicks are slower, less safe, and lead to less stuff and it's easy to see why they're such a problem. DOA 4 and 5 have force teching and 3.1's excellent freestep system gives you ways to maneuver past them (among other things. They can be stuffed rather easily also), but they're kind of an issue with the franchise as a whole.
I think a MAJOR overhaul is needed in order for this game to be considered "solid", "legit", etc. Just my opinion
 

Zeo

Well-Known Member
Main Character
Gamertag
ZeoRebirth
I think a MAJOR overhaul is needed in order for this game to be considered "solid", "legit", etc. Just my opinion
Honestly, not that much of one. Go back to 3.1's old system. Add more guaranteed setups for every character, speed up throws and we're pretty much good.
 

MasterHavik

Well-Known Member
Chicago, IL
Main Character
Zack
And the oki game, you're right. It's not as good as Tekken and VF, mainly because it doesn't really exist. If an opponent is grounded in DOA, that means they can take advantage of bullshit wakeup kicks, so there's no real way for the standing player to continue to apply pressure or force a mixup after a knock down safely. As a matter of fact, the grounded player has the advantage since wakeup kicks give such a good stun and allows the player to start mixing up if they connect. Compare that to VF and Tekken where wakeup kicks are slower, less safe, and lead to less stuff and it's easy to see why they're such a problem. DOA 4 and 5 have force teching and 3.1's excellent freestep system gives you ways to maneuver past them (among other things. They can be stuffed rather easily also), but they're kind of an issue with the franchise as a whole.
Question: Characters like Zack and Christie were created to be pure mix up/oki characters....if you say oki doesn't exist...then what archtype do you call characters like Zack and Christie?
 

Dr. Teeth

Active Member
Standard Donor
Question: Characters like Zack and Christie were created to be pure mix up/oki characters....if you say oki doesn't exist...then what archtype do you call characters like Zack and Christie?
Christie's weird because she changes a lot in every game, but in DOA 5 she's most definitely a rushdown character. Her speed, JKO game, and mixups are all designed to give her an advantage on offense and shut down an opponent if they try to mount any offense of their own. She also has throw mixups and guard breaks built into her strings, so she's got answers even if you choose to stay on defense. She's kind of like a more mobile version of Kokoro in a sense, but Kokoro does way better damage.

And Zack is most definitely a mixup character. Oki refers specifically to the ground game, not mixups as a whole. A majority of Zack's tools are designed to keep opponents guessing in stun, so I'd say he falls into that category for sure.
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Where Christie Goes, I Go
Main Character
Christie
Gamertag
Awesmic
3DS Friend Code
4425-1552-0190
PSN ID
Awesmic
Christie's weird because she changes a lot in every game, but in DOA 5 she's most definitely a rushdown character. Her speed, JKO game, and mixups are all designed to give her an advantage on offense and shut down an opponent if they try to mount any offense of their own. She also has throw mixups and guard breaks built into her strings, so she's got answers even if you choose to stay on defense. She's kind of like a more mobile version of Kokoro in a sense, but Kokoro does way better damage.
Even so, the tradeoff for Kokoro's high damage output is that many of her attacks are linear, and given the nature of Christie's stance transition, a smart Christie player can pretty much JAK-off to them and continue to apply the pressure, further emphasizing her importance as a rushdown character.

This is probably one of the reasons why it's also not as easy for Christie to get a guaranteed Critical Burst compared to others on paper. She has so many offensive options that she likely won't need to go for the CB in most situations.

NOTE: This is going from personal experience in my own words. If I said something wrong here, please don't give me flak for it.
 

MasterHavik

Well-Known Member
Chicago, IL
Main Character
Zack
Even so, the tradeoff for Kokoro's high damage output is that many of her attacks are linear, and given the nature of Christie's stance transition, a smart Christie player can pretty much JAK-off to them and continue to apply the pressure, further emphasizing her importance as a rushdown character.

This is probably one of the reasons why it's also not as easy for Christie to get a guaranteed Critical Burst compared to others on paper. She has so many offensive options that she likely won't need to go for the CB in most situations.

NOTE: This is going from personal experience in my own words. If I said something wrong here, please don't give me flak for it.
I second this and you know who is backing up my Zack Awesmic.
 

rximmortal

Active Member
Main Character
PSN ID
rximmortal
The PLus frames on block is what makes the game broken. I really love there isnt or at least there are pretty less moves in doa5 with + on block.
And the Hold SYSTEM is something that all fighting games needs. Not to spent Entire life of trying to learn a 1-2 frame combo links and still miss it like noob.Compare the other games DOA5 is really something nice and different.
I am pretty sure they will make a history with the next DOA "6" ^^
 
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d3v

Well-Known Member
Philippines
Main Character
Christie
PSN ID
pinakaguwaping
Steam
D3vlicious
The PLus frames on block is what makes the game broken. I really love there isnt or at least there are pretty less moves in doa5 with + on block.
And the Hold SYSTEM is something that all fighting games needs. Not to spent Entire life of trying to learn a 1-2 frame combo links and still miss it like noob.Compare the other games DOA5 is really something nice and different.
I am pretty sure they will make a history with the next DOA "6" ^^
Quit fighting games now.
 
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rximmortal

Active Member
Main Character
PSN ID
rximmortal
The best fighting game that i have ever played was GAROU MOTW but it will never be remade like sf4, unfortunately. All other games are like trash to it.
 
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