Strategy against grapplers...please!!!

shunwong

Active Member
So I got into this room with a Tina/Bayman/Bass player and he totally destroyed me (I think I only won one match against Bass. There were some close matches too but in the end he won most). Seems grapplers can get a shit-ton of damage out of holds (whether they are offensive holds, 2 part holds or whatever the fuck they are I don't have a clue, but they hurt a lot).

Please, can you guys give me some tips against grapplers?
 

P1naatt1ke1tt0

Active Member
Spam low counters eh? Defends agains high grabs and OH:s. OH:s aren't invincible, fast pokes (e.g. PP) can interrupt them during start-up frames, and of course regular throws lose to all strikes. Learn to read your opponents patterns, when s/he likes to interrupt his string and go for an OH (Bayman especially), and punish with a fast non-interruptable throw of your own.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
Don't let them go on the offense, learn their OH throws and punish with a throw, and only hold when you're being hit.
 

shinryu

Active Member
Who are you playing? Unless it's Lisa or Brad Wong, you're almost certainly faster than they are. While I hate to say "online strategy" it is a bitch to throw punish online, so you can really bulldog grapplers with strikes if you don't get predictable. Bayman's a little tougher to crack thanks to 33f+p and tank rolls, but Tina and Bass really need frame advantage to make their OH work. Tina can punish an anticipated high with 46f+p, but I don't think Bass has anything like that; he's looking to pick you up and super freak you (that doesn't sound right...). So if you can stay in their face you can lock them down pretty hard.

Or you can run away like a bitch, that's actually disgustingly effective online, but you should be slapped if you do that.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Tech roll. Always tech roll. Next, unless you are really on your game, don't use counters. Grapplers will try to fake you into trying to counter them by free-canceling obvious combo strings. Don't go for the bait. If you do, they get a free Hi Counter throw on you, and you don't want that. Focus on your speed and crush attacks.
 

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
Against Tina: If you randomly hold her, you're dead. If you don't randomly hold her, you're dead too. Rush her down.
 

shinryu

Active Member
Yeah, if you ever get to a critical burst situation with Tina, you are basically boned. Either

a) Hold mid punch, get thrown for 100+ points of damage + whatever the stun combo was
b) Don't hold mid punch, get critical bursted, take another 40 points after the launch.

Add in her unholdable stuns and she's actually pretty monstrous as a combo character on top of her throw damage.

The thing is, Tina has to get the stun started, and if you're in her face that's very difficult for her. Fast mids are very hard to deal with since she either has to try to jab you out or hold/sidestep them. You have to be careful of going high or low predictably as she has great crushes for those (1p and 4k), but rushdown is really hard to deal with especially online since so much becomes safe. Helena is a nightmare since she can basically never stop doing strings since she never has to really worry about throw punishment.

Bayman is a different beast, he's much more evasive and defensively capable. Tina can butcher you if you make one big mistake; Bayman will pick you apart over two or three smaller errors, but he's got better tools to force those errors. I'm not as competent with him, but he's fishing for any time he's got enough frame advantage to throw an OH out and if he ever launches you it'll be 80 or 90 points guaranteed with the ground throw, and he's always going to be trying to push to a wall if there is one. If he gets you to the wall, it's a very bad day for you. You have to be more careful rushing him down since he's got the tank rolls/parries/advanced holds to get him out of trouble if he needs.

Bass, I don't know nearly enough about to give great advice, except obviously if he knocks you down and picks you up you just have to guess duck or standing block, basically. 41236f+p beats one and 33p beats the other and I think either gives him reset options. He's slower than Tina, though, so you can probably rush him down too.
 

Doa_Eater

Well-Known Member
Oh i wouldn't say that grapplers are that better on critical burst damage(didn't knew Bass is evasive on cb), everyone can pull that off and deal monster damage(except Helena who has more difficulty). If the player is good he is good and you deal with it according to play style.

Oh and i don't consider Lisa and Mila grapplers.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Oh and i don't consider Lisa [a grappler].
Dafuq? She has more strikes that lead into throws than any other character.

Against Tina: If you randomly hold her, you're dead. If you don't randomly hold her, you're dead too. Rush her down.
Yeah, she's very tough to fight as Ryu with his slow-buttass speed. It's either crushes, distancing or losing.
 

Doa_Eater

Well-Known Member
Dafuq? She has more strikes that lead into throws than any other character.

Lisa is just a gimmicky character that is bolstered on offensive holds and given an air throw that does the same damage as Tina's giant swing but doesn't splat. If they remove those offensive holds and make them normal throws then i'll approve and then everyone will just laugh and not be like "Omg i can't win against Lisa". I second her and playing her is laughable and easy, her damage input is insane and she is not even painful on attraction. Tina pedigrees your head to head to hell and back for just ughhh how much was it.. forgot the number damage.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Lisa is just a gimmicky character that is bolstered on offensive holds and given an air throw that does the same damage as Tina's giant swing but doesn't splat. If they remove those offensive holds and make them normal throws then i'll approve and then everyone will just laugh and not be like "Omg i can't win against Lisa". I second her and playing her is laughable and easy, her damage input is insane and she is not even painful on attraction. Tina pedigrees your head to head to hell and back for just ughhh how much was it.. forgot the number damage.
Not seeing what any of that has to do with her classification as a grappler.
 

Doa_Eater

Well-Known Member
Not seeing what any of that has to do with her classification as a grappler.
Just how i see her, nothing imposing or stating as a fact, her number of normal throws is pretty much the same as everyone minus offensive holds. Tina/Bayman and Bass have much more. Lisa's game is based on 1p and hoping back and forth.
 

Prince Adon

Best in the World!!!
Premium Donor
Don't forget about her combo throws, air throw, her combos in to throw mix up, her wake up throw, annnd her new throw stance that goes into rush throws after certain flips and such. Oh and her BT throws. I say she is pretty much classified as a legit grappler.
 

shinryu

Active Member
Hayabusa is more of a grappler then Lisa.

I usually think for DOA purposes "grappler" ends up being a definition in terms of OHs and throw speed, and since I think Lisa has a 4 frame throw and 6 frame command throw she qualifies (and ironically, Bayman doesn't...). But, yeah, she's pretty bullshit online. Spam unsafe horseshit without repercussions and run away!
 

Ace Flibble

Member
Lisa has a grappling style but she is not used in a grappling way. If a Lisa player tries to do the same hold-baiting that Bass/Tina/Bayman players do then they're just setting themselves up to fail. Lisa (and Mila) is neither an outright grappler or an outright striker, to me. She (they) requires the player to do an equal amount of both. A Tina or Bayman player can get through a round very comfortably without touching a strike command, a Lisa or Mila player not so much.

Anyway, the best thing to do against Tina certainly is just to bulldog her. Us Tina players are totally screwed if you pick a faster character (which is almost all of them) and stay right on top of us, especially online where holds are virtually useless.
What you absolutely should not do is try to counter her in any way, be it holds, OHs, throwing if you think she'll block, etc. The way most Tina players fight, they want you to think you can predict, counter and punish her. That way you throw out a hold and they hit you with a big throw, or you go for a throw and they nail you with a large juggle string ending with another throw. Tina ia fairly unique in fighting games in that she's not about speed or power or repeating juggle strings like most characters in most games are. She's all about the match psychology. So long as you stay calm, confident and don't let up, she's almost entirely helpless.

The same applies for Bass and Bayman but you don't want to rush them quite so intensely. If they do manage to CH or OH you (as rare as that is online), it's going to hurt even more than when Tina does. Stick to a classic high-low mixup (mid kicks will be good too since most people only seem to go for mid punch counter holds) and again, stay calm and confident. Bayman's counter holds are a real scary thing and the more you let yourself get frustrated by them the more you're going to fall for them.
 

shunwong

Active Member
especially online where holds are virtually useless.

He had 3 bars and I had 4 bars and he was holding me all the time.

PS: My problem was with Tina and Bayman, not with Bass. Sorry if I explained myself poorly.
 
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