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Team Ninja wants ideas for next patch!

DR2K

DR2K

Well-Known Member
d3v said:
Vanilla Sagat isn't even the strongest character in that game (Seth, Viper and Akuma are).

Speaking of balance issues thanks to patches. There are multiple cases of patches screwing things up. 3rd Strike rev. 990608 took out "broken" things like Urien's unblockables, stuff that he actually needed to compete against the top tier. As a result, the SF community rejected it and stuck with rev. 990512. Also, vanilla MvC3, Sentinel was nerfed early on. Sentinel, a character who ended up being mid-tier at best got nerfed for no reason simply because the scrubs complained.
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Eh Vanilla Sagat was dumb, retard mode dumb. He was nerfed properly. Also known as Jann Lee right now. Removing Oh properties from Dragon Gunner won't cause any outrage. It's a rational and fair nerf, that still allows a character to compete.

Sentinel isn't mid tier though, he's designed around getting 1 hit kills and is a top assist. Health nerf was great, but Capcom said his health was a glitch.
 
Raansu

Raansu

Well-Known Member
Quit asking for nerfs for a solid tool and start asking for buffs for the weaker characters. There is nothing broken about Jann Lee's dragon gunner and there is ZERO reason to nerf it. If you want to bitch about Jann Lee then play 3.1 and I'll give you a REAL reason to bitch about him. I'd kill to have 3.1 Jann Lee in DoA5.

Start asking for BUFFS for other characters not nerfs. Bring the weaker characters up to Jann Lee's level, don't bring him down to the weaker characters...If that happened we would just be playing DoA4 again...no thanks to that. I guarantee that nerfing any character right now will KILL this game. You think the offline scene is struggling now? If they nerf characters you can watch as everyone leaves again like they did with doa4. The game needs more legit tools, not less.
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
I would be okay with Jann Lee having his OH if the only thing he got guaranteed off of it was 66K. The fact that he can gets an unholdable stun from which guarantees another unholdable stun from which guarantees another move is stupid. It is a move that is way too easy to just throw out with no set up needed and it guarantees way to much.

Here's an example: Say they make it so if Helena BKO ducks an attack, she gets a guaranteed 6P which causes an unholdable stun which she can link into a sit down stun setting her up for CB. Would that seems too strong? Well that is basically what Jann Lee has. I'd love to see every character as strong as him but it isn't going to happen. The don't need to ruin his dragon gunner just tone it down a bit.

If they make it so he can only guarantee 66K from it I would be happy. When he lands 66K it puts him in a great position because the opponent has to fight to get in again which isn't easy.
 
Raansu

Raansu

Well-Known Member
Omegan Eckhart said:
I would be okay with Jann Lee having his OH if the only thing he got guaranteed off of it was 66K. The fact that he can guarantee an unholdable stun from it which guarantees another move is stupid. It is a move that is way too easy to just throw out with no set up needed and it guarantees way to much.
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Are you talking about f+k? That won't connect after the dragon gunner... The only way to connect that is if you stun them with 6f+k and even then you have to do a follow up stun and anything after 6f+k can held out of....You guys need to sit down and test shit in sparing mode before you post something on the forums or on twitter...I'm tired of reading all the ignorance on twitter... I fear for this patch because of this crap.
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Raansu said:
The only way to connect that is if you stun them with 6f+k and even then you have to do a follow up stun and anything after 6f+k can held out of....You guys need to sit down and test shit in sparing mode before you post something on the forums or on twitter
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In regards to sparring I have gone in and tested this, put the AI on fastest stagger escape into block and 6F+K lands every time from his 66F+P. You have to inch slightly forward before you do the kick but it works every single time I do it. Now if I am missing something here please tell me, and in a way I will understand.

BTW I am not asking for anything other than Helena changes as far as twitter is concerned. I am treating this thread as a discussion for balance changes not a request thread.

I am thinking we are misunderstanding each other here, this is what I think is BS:

66F+P > 6F+K > Whatever the fuck the fuck you like. That's too much guaranteed off of one move that requires little to no set up to use. 66F+P gives a guaranteed follow up that links into another guaranteed follow up which links into another guaranteed follow up. By the time you can counter you are about to get hit by a CB.

Ignore the crossed out bits, their an error on my part.
 
Raansu

Raansu

Well-Known Member
6f+p is guaranteed. I was talking about this part of your quote "The fact that he can guarantee an unholdable stun from it which guarantees another move is stupid." which made me assume you were talking about f+k...regardless, after 6f+k EVERYTHING is holdable. It's just a mix up after that. I'm not sure where you got the idea that anything after 6f+k is guaranteed, but you are 100% wrong.

I'm not seeing the problem here, especially since dragon gunner is a fucking 20 frame throw. Duck the damn thing or counter it by throwing and get a hi-counter throw.
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Raansu said:
6f+p is guaranteed. I was talking about this part of your quote "The fact that he can guarantee an unholdable stun from it which guarantees another move is stupid." which made me assume you were talking about f+k...regardless, after 6f+k EVERYTHING is holdable. It's just a mix up after that. I'm not sure where you got the idea that anything after 6f+k is guaranteed, but you are 100% wrong.

I'm not seeing the problem here, especially since dragon gunner is a fucking 20 frame throw. Duck the damn thing or counter it by throwing and get a hi-counter throw.
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No your right you can counter after his 6F+K, my mistake. I'd still like it if his 66K was the only guaranteed move from his 66F+P though.
 
WebHead

WebHead

Active Member
Rannsu why was DOA4 bad when it came to buffing or nerfing. Some characters might have better moves than others but at the end of the day in DOA it matters if youre smarter than the opponent, not which character ur using. People said Leon was low tier and that he was shit but I swear to god I could beat anyone in this universe using him and they can use any high character from here to YA YA land.
 
WebHead

WebHead

Active Member
so do u think doa5 is a huge improvement from 4? I think the best part of DOA is the 50/50 offense vs defense. Its more logic than science like VF. I dont need to pay attention to frame advantage or all that technical stuff to be good, I just need to logically outsmart my opponent which isnt that hard.

Stun, bring it to critical 9/10 they will try to counter a launch, then the next time I can switch it to a grab, or a high launch to be safe, you know what I mean?
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
WebHead said:
I dont need to pay attention to frame advantage or all that technical stuff to be good
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If that is the case then you probably don't play people who are anything other than hardcore casual players. If you don't know anything about frames you won't know how to make the most of your sit down stuns, or how many of those un-counterable frames you lose when people slow escape, changing what options are at your disposal. Or which strings to use against opponents who block constantly seeing as most strings are unsafe causing you to take throw punishment damage when they are blocked. You won't even know what attacks to use after landing a guard crush, the list is extensive.

This game is 90% mind games and 10% execution, though lack of proper frame knowledge will get you killed in high level play.
 
SilverForte

SilverForte

Well-Known Member
Yeah I didn't really make use of frames in fighters until fairly recently, and it makes a big difference. You don't need to memorize all frames, just know what moves are best to use in differing situations.
 
U

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I'd appreciate it if someone could tweet these to TN:

Bass' second hit in the PK not having the 3K properties on crouching opponents in a bug (shimbori mentioned this to Matt/Wah actually).
Wasteland (:624::h::+::P: and the follow-up) can benefit from guaranteeing a ground pick-up (Shimbori himself showed interest in this)
 
Matt Ponton

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
UncleKitchener said:
Wasteland (:624::h::+::P: and the follow-up) can benefit from guaranteeing a ground pick-up (Shimbori himself showed interest in this)
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Just the follow-up, not Wasteland. Since both would guarantee a back-turned pickup it makes no sense to do it on the "whoops, i didn't successfully time the :360::H+P:, oh well - same result."
 
U

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Actually, you're right, there won't be much of a point in having two of the same pick up.

edit: I mean, right now there is little to no incentive for doing the AA, so this change could make the chain throw more useful.
 
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