Well, my point was more that Soul Calibur games get competitive players 'cause their TOs work to ban things they see as threatening the scene.
The Insane Combos in Certain Tag Setups.
- Thread starter Crext
- Start date
FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
I think the only place you'll find combos that can full health is on stages that are quite large. Seeing as most attacks that re-launch tend to bounce off walls, with most characters 50% is usually the max damage.... on the smaller stages. Thankfully 90% of the tag stages are small, so you really only have to worry then.
The full game hasn't released here, but I know some attacks that cause re-launch with the 3 girls currently available on Core Fighters.
Kasumi ~ Anything that ends in her 7K or 7K 6P+K KK , that also includes 4PKK. She also has, for when you're at the wall PP6K, seeing as 7K and 4PKK cause wall splat.. though you could just do 4PK instead of 4PKK... but yeah! That's all I know with her.
Ayane ~ PPPK, and P+KP7K, or her BT PP4PP7K ( I think that's the right input? still kinda adjusting to writing this stuff out, so sorry if it's wrong... ) since her 7K in strings can cause re-launch, I'm going to assume her 66KK BT 7K would have the same affect. When at the wall with her, I tend to just go with PP6P then switch.
Hitomi ~ All you really need to know with her is 4KK, it works near the wall, away from the wall, so that's all you really need with her. Due to that I haven't really experimented with other attacks to see if they float.
~ Just so you know, I actually despise tag. That's not something developed from this game though... any game where I have to have more than 1 character at a time, I generally dislike. MvC, TTT1/2, SFxT etc. The only time I really play tag in DOA is to unlock costumes faster... otherwise I stick to solo.
The full game hasn't released here, but I know some attacks that cause re-launch with the 3 girls currently available on Core Fighters.
Kasumi ~ Anything that ends in her 7K or 7K 6P+K KK , that also includes 4PKK. She also has, for when you're at the wall PP6K, seeing as 7K and 4PKK cause wall splat.. though you could just do 4PK instead of 4PKK... but yeah! That's all I know with her.
Ayane ~ PPPK, and P+KP7K, or her BT PP4PP7K ( I think that's the right input? still kinda adjusting to writing this stuff out, so sorry if it's wrong... ) since her 7K in strings can cause re-launch, I'm going to assume her 66KK BT 7K would have the same affect. When at the wall with her, I tend to just go with PP6P then switch.
Hitomi ~ All you really need to know with her is 4KK, it works near the wall, away from the wall, so that's all you really need with her. Due to that I haven't really experimented with other attacks to see if they float.
~ Just so you know, I actually despise tag. That's not something developed from this game though... any game where I have to have more than 1 character at a time, I generally dislike. MvC, TTT1/2, SFxT etc. The only time I really play tag in DOA is to unlock costumes faster... otherwise I stick to solo.
d3v
Well-Known Member
LOL, a few of us in other communities actually laugh at how scrubby the SC scene is in terms of banning shit outright even when it isn't confirmed ST-Akuma/Alpha tier.
I can only imagine what would have happened if they got their hands on other, classic tournament fighting games. O.Sagat and O.Vega banned in SSFIITurbo, Chun banned in 3rd Strike, Makoto as well since she can 100% you with her back to the corner. All 4 god tiers banned in MvC2, plus most of the remaining 12 high tiers, plus system bans such as no guard breaks on incoming characters and no double snap infinites.
That's nothing that hasn't been seen in other tag team games.
Take note that this is a game that a) lasted for 10 years on the tournament circuit and b) has a combo system that, like DOA5U, has a built in limit that stops the combo after a certain amount of hits.
As I stated before, big damage, even 100% damage is fine in tag since you are dealing with a larger combined life total. Heck, IMO we should actually be able to get longer, more damaging solo combos in tag, just to offset the slippery slope that losing a partner represents.
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Capcom scene is more robust 'cause there's way more players and money. Games don't need to be well balanced or well designed if it's Capcom for there to be a scene. Plus, Marble is based on existing popular franchises. They could make it ASB and there'd still be players. That's not the case at all with poverty or 3D.
EDIT: And Marble 2 was so broken that it went past normal kusoge status and formed a meta based on abusing broken tech.
EDIT: And Marble 2 was so broken that it went past normal kusoge status and formed a meta based on abusing broken tech.
d3v
Well-Known Member
Except I'm not just talking about Marvel (fun fact, there are Marvel games that are considered too shitty for tournament play). I'm talking about what works in tag as a subgenre. Marvel 2 was an accident, but it was an accident that actually ticked most of the requirements for a good, elimination based, tag team fighter. Why do you think that when Mike Z decided to make a tag team game, he took a close look at Marvel 2 and adapted all the things that worked intended or not.
Also, nothing I said has anything to do with balance. All I'm saying is that these kinds of highly damaging options are fine in tag... heck they're actually needed for a robust, elimination style, tag team game.
d3v
Well-Known Member
Wow, I see this thread is attracting alot of people who don't understand how competitive tag team fighters (with the elimination system) work.
I've already explained multiple times, based on experience a other tag team games (ones that share DOA's elimination style where you need to KO both characters to win) why long combos and TODs are okay in tag.
Also, Hugo stun combo.
Take note that this is a 1 v 1 game and these things were considered fine in it.
And speaking of 1 v 1 games, let's take a look at SSFII Turbo.
I've already explained multiple times, based on experience a other tag team games (ones that share DOA's elimination style where you need to KO both characters to win) why long combos and TODs are okay in tag.
Missed this, but as a 3rd Strike player I have to disagree. Makoto had practical 100% combos in 3rd Strike (and she wasn't even top 2).
And speaking of 1 v 1 games, let's take a look at SSFII Turbo.
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True, some of the most watched and played fighters is smash bro's and injustice.
Neither of those have insane combos, unless you count iceclimbers, which was banned. ;-)
It all comes down to the system, or? If you had insane combos in smash bro's, then the game would be a failure as all environmental factors wouldn't play a part anymore. And as we all know the environmental changes and random elements is alpha and omega in this game.
ShinMaruku
Well-Known Member
I think tag never gets good play because relevant players (The ones who can direct the scene) don't like it's flow. It will take tag players to get that put into a event and have players give it a good shit.
d3v
Well-Known Member
Wasn't there a big push for tag early this year once people TN made it so that the stagger escape glitch from 1.03 that people liked alot (where you couldn't stagger escape out of certain stuns) was a part of tag in 1.03a?
synce
Well-Known Member
Viola's only banned in France... I think they also banned Seth in SF4 and god knows what else. Do you really want us to be like France?
Aven Kujo-Gin
Well-Known Member
Everything is excesive in tag.
d3v
Well-Known Member
Oh France. This is why you are "gratuite" (translation FREE).
Viper Excess
Member
Tag is a whole different beast than singles in DOA. It is not supposed to be played by singles. I hope ppl who complain about it are approaching it from a different mindset from DOA singles, where mistakes don't hurt much. Mistakes hurt a whole lot more in tag, so do tag throws and also relaunches that basically every character can do. I used to know a DOA tag player back in the day, high guy, and he had great tag skills. I think tag should be played more often, although I personally do not take it seriously atm.
I was trying out Rachel and Tina in tag the other day. Rachel can air throw ppl twice and get guaranteed forced techs, while Tina gets air swings and guaranteed ground grabs. I found that funny. I can only imagine tag with Leon, guard breaks to unblockable attacks all day lol (which would then require superior spacing or another way to defeat this tactic).
Tag has crazy potential, I think, and there may be tag players who play better in tag than in singles. Those players should get a chance to show off their skills. I believe there have been DOA4 tag money matches, which were hype.
...as opposed to team fight, which is also nice but it's more of a party mode.
I was trying out Rachel and Tina in tag the other day. Rachel can air throw ppl twice and get guaranteed forced techs, while Tina gets air swings and guaranteed ground grabs. I found that funny. I can only imagine tag with Leon, guard breaks to unblockable attacks all day lol (which would then require superior spacing or another way to defeat this tactic).
Tag has crazy potential, I think, and there may be tag players who play better in tag than in singles. Those players should get a chance to show off their skills. I believe there have been DOA4 tag money matches, which were hype.
...as opposed to team fight, which is also nice but it's more of a party mode.