The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[MasterHavik]

He's considered top tier by many people.

last time I heard about him. A lot of people said he was high tier.

You basically described the entire playstyle of Leifang. Parries and Crushes (also Grappling, advanced holds, but I think you get my drift). In my opinion Leifang's parries are better than Gen's, and she has a lot more useful crushes. Gen gets the upper hand because the crushes he does have, give him a ton of guaranteed damage.

Plus, Gen doesn't have Lei's mid-kick hold. Lei can land just one of those and completely ruin Zack's day. It might not be as bad as 8-2, but Zack is going to have to basically play jab>grab game if he wants to have any chance. Lei just shuts down too much of his other offense.


As far as the Lei-Bass matchup, I think that is a lot closer. No more than 6-4, and could easily be 5.5-4.5 with the slight advantage to Lei. Bass is just a slower Tina. TFBB scares the shit out of Lei, and like Tina he's not gonna get crushed too often. He does has to get around Lei's parries, and the speed disadvantage is going to be hard to overcome, but all it takes is one TFBB...

lol Bass vs. Lei is that close? It makes me wonder if Bass is as bad as people say he is. But that makes a lot of sense though. Both characters also has tons of setups leading into free ground throws for them. But a the scary throw besides his super powerbomb(TFBB) I feel a lei/genfu or any other parry character should worry about is an F5 or 6T will make throw your controller at the wall.

And i disagree with you on lei's parries vs. gen fu's parries. Gen fu has an awesome mid kick parry.( He does have one if I recall). This match up is bad, but he can still mid kick. He has the ppkkk unholdable and 6pk. I know for a fact when vs. Zack most people wanna mid punch hold(even lei players) because his best shit is mid punches. I would suggest for you my good man is that you look for mid punches vs. zack than mid kicks. Now what makes Zack vs. Genfu a 7-3 and Zack vs. lei a 6-4? It's simple my good man. When he parries you he has the advantage and he is going to bitchslap you with a crush if you try anything funny. I don't see that in lei. I just see her parries are a way to keep thing at neutral. He also has a hold that stops high and mid punches, which zack's main offense.i'm not a lei player, but I know that girl has been causing headaches ever since I pick up the game in 4.

Another question for you. how lei vs. Christie? I'm thinking 6-4 lei or 5.5-4.5 lei.

But to put things in general I feel if you don't have a good parry Zack is coming for ya ass. i really feel his negatives start to show vs. parry characters. But I feel them hard to notice when it's jann, mila, or ayane.

funny sidenote: Zack's duck beats out dragon gunner,takedown, and jak throw. It's -25, but it's so fucking awesome when i just have to duck and I can do whatever I want...well what duck gives me is a better way to say it.

 

[NightAntilli]

then he should be the best character in the game, right? Nah...there are characters better than him.

btw..i'm not buying the Jann Lee hype. I have yet to see one Jann lee online or offline show he's SS. Well there was that one Japanese Jann but I need more than that.

Every single one of those critical bursts in this match were guaranteed. He walks all over the Gen Fu player.

Jann Lee is the best character period. I would go as far as to say that his 'worst' matchup is 5-5, whoever that is.

 

[MasterHavik]

Every single one of those critical bursts in this match were guaranteed. He walks all over the Gen Fu player.

Jann Lee is the best character period. I would go as far as to say that his 'worst' matchup is 5-5, whoever that is.

that Gen fu wasn't that good. He didn't parry enough and seem to lack knowledge how to fight Jann Lee. Jann is all hype man. Btw..My Zack would make footprints vs. that Jann Lee player. That Jann Lee isn't even on Vanessa or Ryujin's level bro.

Like I said Jann is all hype and is super overrated. He's the new linsainty if you ask me. I wish everyone would stop this JannSainty.

My opinion on him?

Mid tier at best. people haven't bother to figure him out yet. Yuo want someone to go nuts about? Go check out Sarah, Pai, Gen fu, and Lei fang.

p.s.

Zack vs. Jann is a 5-5

you like dragon gunner? Well it's useless vs. Zack. and let's not forget his funky speed.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

He's considered top tier by many people.

Gen Fu is only second to Jann Lee. Gen and Lei are equally dangerous, the only difference is Gen is simpler and easier to use.

#1 Jann Lee
#2 Gen Fu
#3 Lei Fang
#4 Kokoro
#5 Ayane

Every single one of those critical bursts in this match were guaranteed. He walks all over the Gen Fu player.

Jann Lee is the best character period. I would go as far as to say that his 'worst' matchup is 5-5, whoever that is.

Jann Lee can guarantee so much in this game, it's the main part of what makes him so strong. Jann has NO bad match ups, there is just no way.

 

[NightAntilli]

I personally think people overestimate Kokoro. She still kind of needs to play the mix-up game. Even her follow-ups require mixups because they can all be held. She has a few guaranteed setups, but it's not easy getting them. And she can easily get hit out of her heichu stance. And it's hard getting back in the game when you're on the defensive with her since she lacks evasion. And she has a huge list of bad matchups....

 

[Matt Ponton]

And she has a huge list of bad matchups....

Like?

 

[MasterHavik]

Jann Lee can guarantee so much in this game, it's the main part of what makes him so strong. Jann has NO bad match ups, there is just no way.

So he's DOA5's Metaknight? I think he's overrated. That damage gets thrown out when you need to fact things in like crushes, speed, mix up, and etc. and Jann's mix up game isn't something to write home about. And isn't he kind of linear too?

I personally think people overestimate Kokoro. She still kind of needs to play the mix-up game. Even her follow-ups require mixups because they can all be held. She has a few guaranteed setups, but it's not easy getting them. And she can easily get hit out of her heichu stance. And it's hard getting back in the game when you're on the defensive with her since she lacks evasion. And she has a huge list of bad matchups....

uh....one guess and you get CB'd for half life? Only her the JB wannabe Eliot can do that. Jann gotta land a few more hits for a CB. Nah Kokoro is smashing with grace and beauty dude. she is super good. Her rushdown game is out of this world and I feel she can streamroll like Jann without much effort. and who does she lose to? Her brain? I would like to see a list sir.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

So he's DOA5's Metaknight? I think he's overrated. That damage gets thrown out when you need to fact things in like crushes, speed, mix up, and etc. and Jann's mix up game isn't something to write home about. And isn't he kind of linear too?

Guaranteed set ups > Mix ups. It's for that reason that Helena isn't top tier, she is nothing but guess work and cannot guarantee anything what so ever. Jann Lee only needs to poke you on CH, land one sit down stun and BAMM! He lands Critical Burst! He can guarantee huge amounts of damage extremely easily. Only Gen Fu can do the same thing except Fu has even less mix ups.

Linearity is not as big a deal as people think it is. Every character is really linear with only a hand full of tracking moves, most of which are in string and not that useful. Jann Lee has absolutely no weakness at all as a character. He's extremely fast, strong, has great ranged tools, easy CB's and great sit down stuns that give him +30, +23 with the fastest slow escaping. he isn't the most OP character EVAR but he is pretty ridiculous.

 

[DR2K]

Gen Fu is almost everyone's worst matchup though.

Helena doesn't particular care about Genfu's offense. Her crushes/evasion allow her start up the blender on his somewhat straightforward offense.Once that starts the match up is irrelevant.

 

[Jefffcore]

Helena can't do anything about Gen Fu's offense, so she certainly should care. Gen Fu can catch people with a high enough launch, giving him a similar effect to Helena's pseudo. I think you need to verse yourself more in other characters.

'Busa has them, Mila has them, Hitomi has them, Bass has force techs/pickups, Kasumi, Christie, Ayane, Lei (Like she's not good enough already) and I'm sure there are more I don't know about. A good portion of characters can play that game if they want to.

 

[NightAntilli]

Like?

Gen Fu (6-4): If you do a high with Kokoro, she gets crushed. And since she relies on a lot of mids to get her best setups, she will have a really hard time getting inside Gen Fu because of his parries. Gen Fu's speed beats her up close, and Kokoro's speedy moves get either crushed or parried.

Hitomi (5.5-4.5): Even though Hitomi lacks guaranteed setups, she outspaces Kokoro with her moves and with her punch parry she has the advantage at a distance since Kokoro lacks any sort of long range kicks. Not to mention Kokoro's best moves are pretty much all punches. Kokoro's setup becomes dangerous to use, , becomes dangerous to use.. And since Kokoro lacks proper crushes, she's not in a great position after Hitomi parries her. Grabbing the parry is risky since she can attack from it too. The one who gains momentum first has the best chance of winning, but Hitomi's chances for gaining, keeping and turning momentum seem to be slightly better.

Kasumi (6-4): Has a VERY easy time hitting Kokoro out of her Heichu stance. She outspeeds Kokoro, and her low punch hold damage will refrain Kokoro from using her 2p from stance/grab too much. Even though Kokoro has moves that give her frame advantage, her options afterwards are not great. Either she does something linear, which is easily sidestepped, or she does her circular, which is a high, that's easily crushed. Kasumi can make great use of this.

Pai (6-4): Has so many circulars, mixups, has the speed to hit her out of heichu. She gets guaranteed things much easier than Kokoro, her holds will screw up Kokoro's momentum, and well, the rest is the same story as Kasumi.

Mila (6-4): Kokoro is so easily sidestepped, and Mila having one of the best sidesteps in the game... Yeah.. Mila dominates her at a distance. Mila can get inside without needing to play the stun game, while Kokoro will need to work her ass off to not get sidestepped to death. They are basically the same speed, so, Mila's superior evasiveness and sidesteps get the better of Kokoro

Jann Lee (6-4): Does this need explaining? It's Jann Lee. He outspeeds, has a safe sidestep, can dragon gunner almost everything due to Kokoro's lack of crushes and crouching low attacks, gets bursts easier..

Maybe Brad, Ayane and Leifang are bad matchups too, but, I'm not sure yet so I left those out.

uh....one guess and you get CB'd for half life? Only her the JB wannabe Eliot can do that. Jann gotta land a few more hits for a CB. Nah Kokoro is smashing with grace and beauty dude. she is super good. Her rushdown game is out of this world and I feel she can streamroll like Jann without much effort. and who does she lose to? Her brain? I would like to see a list sir.

, is two guesses, both are mid punches that can be held. There's actually no reason to use this over her since the latter gives you guaranteed damage
, , is one guess, but slow and easy to see coming, and is also a mid punch. A good player will hold mid punch to avoid the burst. Kokoro can mix it up, but then the one guess is gone.
Every mid string grab ( , (), and so on) is a guess.
Kokoro is nowhere near Jann Lee.

 

[HiguraShiki]

So he's DOA5's Metaknight? I think he's overrated. That damage gets thrown out when you need to fact things in like crushes, speed, mix up, and etc. and Jann's mix up game isn't something to write home about. And isn't he kind of linear too? uh....one guess and you get CB'd for half life? Only her the JB wannabe Eliot can do that. Jann gotta land a few more hits for a CB. Nah Kokoro is smashing with grace and beauty dude. she is super good. Her rushdown game is out of this world and I feel she can streamroll like Jann without much effort. and who does she lose to? Her brain? I would like to see a list sir.

Kokoro doesn't have an offensive hold like Jann Lee does, she doesn't get guaranteed damage off of holds like Jann Lee does, she doesn't get unholdable CB's like Jann Lee does, doesn't do as much damage as Jann Lee, doesn't have as many tracking moves as Jann Lee, isn't faster than Jann Lee, and (I honestly don't think linearity is a weakness but ok) is much more linear than Jann lee. I don't think there is a contest, Jann Lee is the best character in DOA5.

 

[Matt Ponton]

So Kokoro vs Jann Lee = 4-6?

 

[HiguraShiki]

So Kokoro vs Jann Lee = 4-6?

I agree on this.

 

[DR2K]

Helena can't do anything about Gen Fu's offense, so she certainly should care. Gen Fu can catch people with a high enough launch, giving him a similar effect to Helena's pseudo. I think you need to verse yourself more in other characters.

'Busa has them, Mila has them, Hitomi has them, Bass has force techs/pickups, Kasumi, Christie, Ayane, Lei (Like she's not good enough already) and I'm sure there are more I don't know about. A good portion of characters can play that game if they want to.

Pretty hard to get your offense going when you spend most of the match at -4 to -24.

No one has them like Helena. Not a single one mentioned, with the exception of maybe Bass has it like her. It's like comparing a blender to stabbing something with a butter knife. I mean some characters have guaranteed set ups, but no one has them like Jann does.So therefore Jann isn't as effective by that logic.

 

[Jefffcore]

Pretty hard to get your offense going when you spend most of the match at -4 to -24.

No one has them like Helena. Not a single one mentioned, with the exception of maybe Bass has it like her. It's like comparing a blender to stabbing something with a butter knife. I mean some characters have guaranteed set ups, but no one has them like Jann does.So therefore Jann isn't as effective by that logic.

A pseudo is a pseudo. The only thing about Helena's is she can do them from every height; that's not a good analogy. How much do you actually know about the other characters? Bass's aren't even that good.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I agree on this.

Good, because it was already set to 4-6 in Jann's favor. So how about another match up for her?

 

[Jefffcore]

Gen Fu is only second to Jann Lee. Gen and Lei are equally dangerous, the only difference is Gen is simpler and easier to use.

#1 Jann Lee
#2 Gen Fu
#3 Lei Fang
#4 Kokoro
#5 Ayane


Jann Lee can guarantee so much in this game, it's the main part of what makes him so strong. Jann has NO bad match ups, there is just no way.

Gen Fu can't guarantee half your life from one guess, Lei Fang can. Gen Fu doesn't have the crushing ability Lei does, the range, or the tools.

 

[NightAntilli]

Gen Fu can't guarantee half your life from one guess, Lei Fang can. Gen Fu doesn't have the crushing ability Lei does, the range, or the tools.

Gen Fu's crushes as good as any of Leifang's up close crushes. And don't forget , which crushes and launches. Only crushing move that Gen Fu lacks compared to Leifang is her

Also, I've experienced the , then another sitdown stun move, then burst. As far as I know, only the second of is a guess since the rest is guaranteed. Then he can get a launcher and definitely take half your life. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[DR2K]

A pseudo is a pseudo. The only thing about Helena's is she can do them from every height; that's not a good analogy. How much do you actually know about the other characters? Bass's aren't even that good.

A guess is a guess of course of course. Well being able to do it from every height means she can loop it with ease. No one else can do that. That's pretty much why you spammed the ever loving shit out of 3 H+K in the last tournament. Little guaranteed, but nasty mix ups. Congrats btw.

Bass's are more situational, but he can string them along with the right knockdown. His inability to start up offense is what makes it more difficult for him.