The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[Batcommander]

I'm looking at the Japanese 1.03 changelog and I'm noticing inconsistencies with the English one when it comes to stun terminology.

Example: 腹よろけtranslates to something like belly stagger. In the English changelog this is translated to anything from belly crumple to limbo stun. I believe it's actually just the stun where a character grabs his stomach and falls unless they counter.

As far as I can tell the only character getting an actual limbo stun (のけぞり崩れよろけ) is Lisa, and it's not on NH like the English log says, it's only on CH and HCH. It doesn't look like Ryu, Alpha, etc. are getting those new limbo stuns.

I haven't looked over the whole list yet, just some characters I'm interested in. But don't be surprised if something's a little different from what the patch notes say

honestly, i wouldn't be surprised if it was CH, NH limbo stun sounds too good to be true, but i guess well see.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Is 270 the 1.02's small or smallest health bar?

 

[Matt Ponton]

Small

 

[Zeo]

I'd probably advise people to start playing on small to get used to it.

 

[MasterHavik]

Good thing I was with Rikuto. Anyways...Zack got better, but I want to consult with my other Zack players before going farther.

 

[Awesmic]

With the new unholdable stun options Christie has, she now has two ways to punish low holds.

One is a low throw, and the other - 3k - is a sitdown stun on CH that tracks. Furthermore, the move can be JAK-ed off. A stun that good can pretty much guarantee a (JAK) p launcher on reaction, or even a CB at stun threshold.

And if that's not enough, p+k - another tracking move - does a faint stun on CH. I wonder if the same stun applies to BT as well.

I dunno how significant these buffs are (especially this "small limbo stun" for 6p on CH; dafuq?), but it made me forget my once-prioritized 4k2kpp wall hit juggle... and even then, I'm not even mad it won't be there.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

with all the worthless buffs eliot got at least the new health settings will benefit him greatly. his damage output was already pretty damn good especially from hi-counter throws where his damage is up their with grapplers thanks to his 236H+P into my bnb juggle which does 117 points of damage on its own not including potential dangerzone damage. so mid/high punch counter-happy clowns will think twice before randomly mashing those holds during my stun strings since he can potentially end the round from just landing two of those

 

[MasterHavik]

with all the worthless buffs eliot got at least the new health settings will benefit him greatly. his damage output was already pretty damn good especially from hi-counter throws where his damage is up their with grapplers thanks to his 236H+P into my bnb juggle which does 117 points of damage on its own not including potential dangerzone damage. so mid/high punch counter-happy clowns will think twice before randomly mashing those holds during my stun strings since he can potentially end the round from just landing two of those

Why do you think they nerf him?

 

[DontForkWitMe]

Why do you think they nerf him?

they didn't directly nerf him they just buffed up other low/mid tier characters significantly while leaving the high tier characters intact while his meaningless buffs do nothing to solve his problems.

thats not even including the system-wide changes that do nothing but hurt him, he no longer can take advantage of backturned stuns with attacks now auto turning opponents after the first attack from a BT stun, sidesteps are faster making it even easier to avoid his linear attacks where he has no worthwhile tracking moves to compensate. crouch blocking is much faster making his already mediocre lows easier to react to especially 2H+K which was his best low. he also can't take advantage of slippery surfaces anymore which helped his otherwise horrible mixup game. all these disadvantages while still having horrible tracking, no guaranteed setups, and relying on the stun/guessing game pretty much cements his low tier status

 

[MasterHavik]

That sucks man thanks for helping me understand. Zack no super linear he has enough tracking to keep ya honest.

 

[dawnbringer]

crouch blocking is much faster making his already mediocre lows easier to react to especially 2H+K which was his best low.

Speed of low guard from neutral isn't changed in the patch.

 

[MasterHavik]

Speed of low guard from neutral isn't changed in the patch.

but they buff crouching right?

 

[dawnbringer]

but they buff crouching right?

Right. They made crouching faster. And I think they made crouching under high throws and offensive holds easier.

 

[Jefffcore]

If the SS works properly Zack is gonna be worse than he was already.

 

[MasterHavik]

If the SS works properly Zack is gonna be worse than he was already.

Good thing I thought ahead about that. I think I got a way around that. Besides...he still has his second sidestep too. I'm a happy pony these days. Btw...if what you'e saying is true..then ms. Geisha will have the same problem, but people like JDE say otherwise. So let's not bank on a properly ss to judge characters my friend.

 

[synce]

Spent some quality time with Pai in training today and came to the conclusion that she'll still be high tier in 1.03. Although technically the patch nerfed her 66H+K all it really affects is her 214T juggle, which is pretty much broken in its current state.

Right now on HCH you're guaranteed about 120dmg on lights and 110 on mids, which is more damage than Alpha's i12 grab (and Lisa's, etc). Without the aid of 66H+K bounce I'm doing 90dmg on lights and 85 on mids. May be possible to do a tiny bit more but this seems reasonable to me.

Otherwise the new juggles I'm coming up with usually do the same damage as before. At worst maybe 10-15dmg less, but when you factor in the switch to 270HP on top of the many buffs she's getting I don't think any of her matchups will be affected negatively.

 

[P1naatt1ke1tt0]

So Jeffcore, how do you feel about the Hitomi/Mila matchup now after the former has been buffed and the latter nerfed a bit?
How about Hitomi's tier placement? High end of mid tier?

 

[J.D.E.]

Good thing I thought ahead about that. I think I got a way around that. Besides...he still has his second sidestep too. I'm a happy pony these days. Btw...if what you'e saying is true..then ms. Geisha will have the same problem, but people like JDE say otherwise. So let's not bank on a properly ss to judge characters my friend.

I think of what otherwise?

Edit: Oh nevermind. I know now. If you think this turned her into a fraud, you go right on ahead & keep posting "theories & opinions" lol. But don't say nothing if somebody comes up with actual facts like I did when I'm telling you that she's still viable. Also, SS is not gonna hurt her either.With the changes made, she really didn't get hurt.

I'm also getting annoyed with a few people. It has NOTHING to do with respect because everybody in here know I respect any & everybody. It's the fact that you along with DR2K & a few debate with 0 facts! It's like tryna pay a bill with no profit! I mean fuck! Everything you both post are "opinionated" when people come up with facts & back up statements. It don't work like that. So therefore, people feel like there's no point in talking to you

 

[MasterHavik]

I think of what otherwise?

Edit: Oh nevermind. I know now. If you think this turned her into a fraud, you go right on ahead & keep posting "theories & opinions" lol. But don't say nothing if somebody comes up with actual facts like I did when I'm telling you that she's still viable. Also, SS is not gonna hurt her either. & her some of her moves track now. With the changes made, she really didn't get hurt.

I'm also getting annoyed with a few people. It has NOTHING to do with respect because everybody in here know I respect any & everybody. It's the fact that you along with DR2K don't debate with 0 facts! It's like tryna pay a bill with no profit! I mean fuck! Everything you both post are "opinionated" when people come up with facts & back up statements. It don't work like that. So therefore, people feel like there's no point in talking to you

Don't flip it like that dude. Let's slow our roll...I jump the gun you're right not gonna lie. So let me just study I don't need to make enemies my bad dude. Btrw..I never said Kokoro is a fraud....that's pushing it. I thiI bet even with all the nerfs this will turn into another Helena situation you know? Where everypony said she wasn't good and then come DID8, NEC, and we were all looking crazy myself included.

But let's get off that for now. What do you guys think about Bass? I think the," i'm just too damn strong" phase has more weight this time. His Bt throw becoming an OH almost made me passout. That change alone makes me feel all warm inside.

 

[Awesmic]

Don't flip it like that dude. Let's slow our roll...I jump the gun you're right not gonna lie. So let me just study I don't need to make enemies my bad dude.

I got plenty of enemies as it is right now. As they say, you can't get along with everyone.

You'll live, as long as you stay away from them.

What do you guys think about Bass? I think the," i'm just too damn strong" phase has more weight this time. His Bt throw becoming an OH almost made me passout. That change alone makes me feel all warm inside.

Bass is strong enough to hold his own with that, but it's even more interesting that his pick-up now has 2 additional frames of advantage. Combined with two throws that lead into that guaranteed pick-up, well... at least more fear will be injected for holding.