SeraphimJester
New Member
(Getting back on topic) Is there a current official tier list or anything close to that?
The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
- Start date
(Getting back on topic) Is there a current official tier list or anything close to that?
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Match ups are not the only thing that determines tier lists. If a character has an loop that allows them to create infinite advantagous scenerious then it's worth discussing. If a character can hit CB in 2 hits than it's worth discussing here.
3D fighters are not as match up heavy as 2D ones, not sure why it's the only factor for discussion here.
Personally most match ups in DOA5 are 5-5. Most characters have all the guessing tools necessary to hit the stun system and play. Movement is universally the same, the triangle system is mostly the same, damage is similar, guaranteed set ups are very minimal and rarely factor into tournmanet play. Generally the characters are pretty homogonous in terms of design.
There's strike heavy characters with bad throws(Christie, Pai, Kasumi), grapplers with bad strikes(Lisa, Bass, Tina), characters that excel at nothing(Zack, Eliot Hayate), then characters that have everything(Mila, Jann, Leifang).
Strikers > grapplers
Everyone > Characters that excel at nothing
Characters that excel at everything > everyone else
Just about every match up in the thread follows this premise.
Much simpler game than people are letting on in this thread.
HiguraShiki
Active Member
Wait, aren't most of Tina's strikes safe on block?
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Yeah, good compared to grapplers. But that's like saying she's the smartest retard. Put her next to a character that that exceles at strikes and she'll get stuffed like a Thanksgiving turkey.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
The difference is negligable. As a grappler she'll get stuffed all the same like Lisa or Bass by a faster character be it someone like Pai/Christie/Kasumi.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
I actually disagree. Tina, while a bit slower than rushdowns, can put up a pretty good fight against everyone. The only problem I see with her (outside universal gameplay stuff, like life being 300 instead of 240) is the reduced amount of guaranteed ground grabs and Shining Wizard not being an OH.
Something-Unique
Active Member
Gen Fu is a simple and straight to the point character. Great all around options. Fast with an i11 mid P. High damage for little to no effort. Quite a bit of crushing options. Great throws in 214T/236T. Free launchers out of his sit down stuns (6PP[P] and 3P[P]) and faint stun on ch (4P+K). Finally and the least important he has a mid parry that eliminates both mids into guaranteed stun.
The thing about Gen Fu though is his approach while effective is "simple and generic" (not to be confused with the mistaken small movelist nonsense). The best way to explain it is to think Vanilla MvC3 Wolverine. Simple, generic, and braindead character that would otherwise be solid at best if he didn't have the cheap invincible berserker slash crossup.
Gen Fu is the exact same thing but lacks the cheap berserker slash crossup. He has nothing to buckle u and steam roll or shake up a tight defense. No OH's to be concerned about. No force tech's to be concerned about. No "immediate" frame advantage to concern urself with. Meaning in almost all situations except his 1K (+0 to +2) which u can mitigate because of it's short range and Gen Fu's somewhat short range in general ur just gonna be looking for those stagger setups at -frames which is "simple and generic".
The great crushing options he has also comes at a price with all of them being unsafe in practical terms. Case in point, ur not gonna be landing something like 44P during high level play like it's candy. He also has piss poor low options. He is also one of the easiest characters to SS without getting random tracked in the entire game. Super linear. His SS options are all unsafe garbage with slow impact frames. I suppose SS'ing with Gen Fu isn't necessary though since u can fall back on his parries.
The famous unholdable H+K launcher that people often buzz about is also hot garbage. Why? Simply because it's unsafe at a whopping -16 which i'm shocked people still don't even notice.
In a nutshell Gen Fu has no capacity to disturb a tight defense. While effective he is the weakest link throughout the entire top tier list. Characters like Sarah, Mila, Jann Lee, etc have just as good options as Gen Fu with cheap "bullshit options" to go along with them.
* Something else worth mentioning is that Gen Fu's 6PPP and 3PP also have a tell in their animation that allows u to react and see it coming. Its the reason it gets countered often by the most seasoned vets. Also his CB is not guaranteed out of his SDS's.
HiguraShiki
Active Member
I wouldn't say so. A lot of her attacks are safe on block. 6k being -5 on block, 3k being -3, 3pp being -4. Most of her other strikes leave her at -10, I dono if that is classified as safe or not though.
I just looked on the match up chart & I see that some of the Helena's mismatches are lit, but some of them that the characters that are her mismatches aren't green. Or are you still figuring the match up points? Just thought I'd share. Didn't know if you knew or not
On the spreadsheet, I was looking to see the updates & I was asking why some of them like Helena have their unfavorable matchup numbers there & the ones who has the favorable 1s of her are not there. I figured that you forgot to edit them or something. Like you have a 4-6 for her against Kasumi, but the 6 isn't there for her. And it's a few others. I mean I know it's not done yet, just looked through the current info on it.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Pai has good throws
I can't find a character with worse throws than her. Maybe Christie. . .
DR2K
Well-Known Member
This thread is more about using facts to back opinions up. Which is why I commented.
Pai has very low damaging throws.
Tokkosho
Well-Known Member
well if all your looking for is damage then yeah, her throws arent too great. But she has stun throws, guaranteeing a followup, her rising 4T guarantees her a good amount of damage (been awhile since i saw it in training mode, but around 100 off HCT IIRC), But most importantly (to me) is her 46T and 64T make people fear countering since they guarantee her a stun and you can loop the fuck outta people, hence why i think they are good.
-10 is rather unsafe. A non grappler can use their neutral throw to punish anything - 6 (I believe) and above. Or below if you're going by how negative numbers work.