The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[Belinea]

I think it actually leaves him at -3? And kk, 6kk, the k at the end of all his strings, 4pk or 1ppk , and h+k are all tracking moves. But I do actually agree with DontFork that Eliot is low tier, particularly in 1.03a, were he's much worse than he has ever been. Still though, I don't ever feel like it's completely hopeless whenever I pick him.

 

[Raansu]

I'd like you to explain how exactly one would punish a -4 disadvantage string.

counter hit...

 

[Matt Ponton]

counter hit...

Against a 0 frame parry, low attack, or crush?

 

[Raansu]

Against a 0 frame parry, low attack, or crush?

Welcome to DoA? Guessing all around.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Welcome to DoA? Guessing all around.

Hold on here, I know you like to jump into a crusade about guessing over mind reading, but there's no need to go down that path.

It was claimed that it was a problem to have a safe disadvantaged attack. One that allows enough time to fuzzy guard any throw punishment or make it impossible to guarantee a punish like it would be an unsafe disadvantaged attack on guard.

What was proven was that a -4 disadvantage attack is not the end of the world and is considered safe.

 

[Raansu]

Hold on here, I know you like to jump into a crusade about guessing over mind reading, but there's no need to go down that path.

It was claimed that it was a problem to have a safe disadvantaged attack. One that allows enough time to fuzzy guard any throw punishment or make it impossible to guarantee a punish like it would be an unsafe disadvantaged attack on guard.

What was proven was that a -4 disadvantage attack is not the end of the world and is considered safe.

disadvantage is disadvantage. Clearly his issue is lack of any real frame advantage/guaranteed damage. If -4 is the best he can get on block then there is a problem (a problem of which that plagues a good portion of the cast).

-4 is "safe" in doa but it applies no real pressure. -4 is still negative.

 

[MasterHavik]

No, I think he's mostly undiscovered and barely played vs Helena who is a much more popualr character and has more information discovered. Lack of people playing him stifles his growth.

Well I said the same thing and me, RD, and Jr have broken down and it's really anything shocking. He's not top tier dude.

 

[Pokerking87]

I think many People here Play Eliot wrong and now complaining all the time!

 

[dawnbringer]

his neutral game is abysmal and he can not open up blocking opponents. no low other than 2H+K stuns on normal hit so other than that one slow easy to react to low, an opponent comfortably stand and block all his offense and then punish him accordingly without worry about some hard to react to low stunning them. during any of his strings

Does Eliot have, for example, a throw launcher, that give him guaranteed follow-ups against blocking opponents?

 

[MasterHavik]

I think many People here Play Eliot wrong and now complaining all the time!

They ain't actually.

Does Eliot have, for example, a throw launcher, that give him guaranteed follow-ups against blocking opponents?

That's kind of all he has going for himself.

 

[d3v]

Still waiting for those direct character vs character comparisons.

 

[Pokerking87]

Eliot is a Pressure Char thats the only way to Play eliot. But thats my opinion. I saw many other Eliot Players here on Videos, far to Defensive!

 

[Murakame]

Eliot is a Pressure Char thats the only way to Play eliot. But thats my opinion. I saw many other Eliot Players here on Videos, far to Defensive!

Have fun trying to do your 10 hit strings on Hayate. GG. I guess I'll give my opinion on Hayate vs. Eliot.

Hayate wins 6-4. Eliot is ultra linear. Any attempts at pressure mean squat when Hayate can 8P+K / 2P+K mid string for that counter hit stun or SSP for a sitdown into a headstart on the stun game or a guaranteed combo. Hayate's options to respond to Eliot's pressure are strong.

On Eliot's end he must use well timed parries and 7P to interrupt Hayate's offense. His fastest mid is 14 frames so he has to be on point if he wants to interrupt with that IMO. Hayate has 236T 7K and Raijin / Nakiryu to discourage the Eliot player from getting desperate with the parries.

At mid range I give the edge to Hayate. 3H+K / 214P and 6P+K K to come in, 214K for +2, 236K for +1, and 4P for a tracking mid with many mixups including wind dash attacks. I know nothing of Eliots inputs but at range I have only seen Eliot players use what I believe is 2H+K and some form of cartwheel kick. Idk how those options are supposed to best Hayates. Thats all I've got. Any Eliot or Hayate players want to come and provide more insight?

 

[qoodname]

This is the thread with the most posts on here yet its the most useless one. Why do people even comment in a tier list thread if they have no idea how a tier list/matchup chart works? Seriously...

 

[Awesmic]

This is the thread with the most posts on here yet its the most useless one. Why do people even comment in a tier list thread if they have no idea how a tier list/matchup chart works? Seriously...

*raises hand*

Maybe some people are afraid of being wrong or offending a player who plays said character by making direct comparisons between two characters and thus creating a shitstorm (NOTE: I said "some people").

So most likely, they believe it's better to play it safe by posting what they know about their own character so the more strat savvy people will have something to work with.

 

[Pokerking87]

Who cares the stupid comparsion! Its the Player and his playstyle to make a Char Good or not!
Besides i use Eliots parries very rarely i dont Need this to Kick Asses with eliot!

 

[qoodname]

*raises hand*

Maybe some people are afraid of being wrong or offending a player who plays said character by making direct comparisons between two characters and thus creating a shitstorm (NOTE: I said "some people").

So most likely, they believe it's better to play it safe by posting what they know about their own character so the more strat savvy people will have something to work with.

That may be true but then its the wrong thread they are posting in. I mean arent the character threads supposed to be used to discuss the characters in general and the tier list thread is used to, well discuss the actual tier list/matchups? Its maybe just me but i thought thats how it works.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Who cares the stupid comparsion! Its the Player and his playstyle to make a Char Good or not!

Tier
noun \ˈtir\
A relative measure of a selectable character's inherent (or, sometimes through engine bugs) attributes; generally this refers to high-level play found in organized tournaments. Top Tier characters are those whose attributes are seen as the greatest, and are the characters most often used in tournaments. Low Tier characters, on the other hand, are those whose attributes are seen as the worst, and thus take the most amount of effort to be used properly to be able to win and may not even be viable in tournament play at all. A game is considered to have good balance when the differences between tiers are small.

 

[Raansu]

Eliot is a Pressure Char thats the only way to Play eliot. But thats my opinion. I saw many other Eliot Players here on Videos, far to Defensive!

A character who's majority of attacks are mid punches? Punches that are not very fast and all negative on block? Please tell me how he is meant to apply pressure when he lacks to tools to even do that. People are defensive because the majority of the cast lacks any sort of frame advantage on block, and the few that do get even that are usually long and very obvious charged attacks or obvious slow ender strings like Bass 33pp(the VF characters are pretty much the exception here). Even most of the guard breaks in this game are negative on block.

Who cares the stupid comparsion! Its the Player and his playstyle to make a Char Good or not!
Besides i use Eliots parries very rarely i dont Need this to Kick Asses with eliot!

1.) No one says you cant win with a low tier character. With that said, winning with a low tier character doesn't make the character better, it just means you were the better player.

2.) Why are you limiting yourself in such a manner?

 

[grap3fruitman]

2.) Why are you limiting yourself in such a manner?

Scrub
noun, often attributive \ˈskrəb\
A derogative term, mostly synonymous with "loser." It is usually used to indicate a player whose skill level is low or who is deemed to simply be unable to win. Scrubs are usually either beginners to their chosen game, players whose timing or execution of moves is weak (even though they may have a high understanding of advanced play), players who value the aesthetics of a fight over victory (thus losing when they attempt visually flashy techniques which may not be suitable to their situation), or players who are not willing to advance their tactics. Those who frequently complain of "cheap" tactics are usually labelled "scrubs."