Junglist_Ninja
Member
Hurray for Bass getting F tier!! I am not sure if that is completely accurate placement but I feel he is definitely close to the bottom.
DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread
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QueenJakheiho
Well-Known Member
Christie vs Zack 5-5
Kasumi vs Zack 5-5
Its so funny to see on this site full of experts. Only because some chars they are faster then other that means instantly 6-4 or 7-3...
Kasumi vs Zack 5-5
Its so funny to see on this site full of experts. Only because some chars they are faster then other that means instantly 6-4 or 7-3...
Well, speed means that you dominate the neutral game, which is a very important factor in DOA since not all characters can carry momentum through an entire round due to the new FT system in 5U. Fighting with a speed disadvantage typically means you're fighting uphill, unless you have great crushes/evasive properties, etc. to compensate. Doesn't make things super lopsided, but speed is very important, especially regarding mids.
AkaShocka
Well-Known Member
I got a little more into some Lisa MUs:
- I can't find an exact ratio, like 6-4 or 5-5 etc, but I'm positive its in Ayane's favor. These 2 are really good at spacing but lets be real, Ayane's spacing game is just far too superior. Aside from that Ayane crushes extremely easy and she is the faster character. Ayane also has great throws but I think the punishes/throws are more in Lisa's favor. These 2 most defiantly have great mixups but yet again I think Ayane takes this one because her mixups are just better. As far as holds I think holds are also more in Ayane's favor because she has a few that give her a juggle opportunity or can get guaranteed damage off of (her mid P hold when she slides under you, I think its an expert hold). I have a bit more but I'm still trying things out. Its probably a 6-4 Ayane's favor.
@iHajinShinobi should be able to tell me what I'm missing or saying wrong here.
- Lisa tracks a lot. So the jak isn't as good as it would be against linear characters like Kokoro or Eliot. And I think these two are pretty even in the mixup game. But as far as spacing, Lisa beats her in spacing. Christie is very decent in spacing but Lisa can out-space her without much difficulty. Lisa is better with throws/punishment. Christie has a 9f jab and a 11f 6p, we all know this, so when these 2 are just going blow-to-blow, Christie has it. Christie lacks in throws and hold damage, which Lisa is pretty good at. Lisa is bad at speed and interrupting strings (aside from 1p) which Christie is excellent at. And Lisa's low OH can really shut the jakhehio down and Lisa tracks a lot so the jak isn't the best option against Lisa. As far as GBs go, I think Lisa is better at GBing but Christie has really good GBs as well. Pretty much these 2 are even. If ones bad at something (Like how Lisa is better with throws/punishments than Christie is better at speed) the other one has that thing they are bad at. And they both have pretty much similar abilities (crushes, mixups). So this IN MY OPINION is 5-5. But it probably is 6-4 Christie favor in reality.
- This bitch. Well I honestly tried this and it worked fine, Lisa can out-space Sarah. Even though Sarah is Jesus and has everything, Lisa can space her out (which is kinda tough since Sarah never gets off your ass and is decent at mid-range) and crush a lot of her strings. Lisa, of course, is better and punishing and throws/holds. But yet again, Sarah gets a lot of frame advantages and is pretty safe. Like almost everything that puts her in FLA stance is +4, +6 etc etc. But the spacing part, I am not too positive about it because Sarah has 66p+k which is pretty useful in spacing and it parries, sweet Jesus. I don't have a ratio for this. Just know, its Sarah's favor though lol.
- I can't find an exact ratio, like 6-4 or 5-5 etc, but I'm positive its in Ayane's favor. These 2 are really good at spacing but lets be real, Ayane's spacing game is just far too superior. Aside from that Ayane crushes extremely easy and she is the faster character. Ayane also has great throws but I think the punishes/throws are more in Lisa's favor. These 2 most defiantly have great mixups but yet again I think Ayane takes this one because her mixups are just better. As far as holds I think holds are also more in Ayane's favor because she has a few that give her a juggle opportunity or can get guaranteed damage off of (her mid P hold when she slides under you, I think its an expert hold). I have a bit more but I'm still trying things out. Its probably a 6-4 Ayane's favor.@iHajinShinobi should be able to tell me what I'm missing or saying wrong here.
- Lisa tracks a lot. So the jak isn't as good as it would be against linear characters like Kokoro or Eliot. And I think these two are pretty even in the mixup game. But as far as spacing, Lisa beats her in spacing. Christie is very decent in spacing but Lisa can out-space her without much difficulty. Lisa is better with throws/punishment. Christie has a 9f jab and a 11f 6p, we all know this, so when these 2 are just going blow-to-blow, Christie has it. Christie lacks in throws and hold damage, which Lisa is pretty good at. Lisa is bad at speed and interrupting strings (aside from 1p) which Christie is excellent at. And Lisa's low OH can really shut the jakhehio down and Lisa tracks a lot so the jak isn't the best option against Lisa. As far as GBs go, I think Lisa is better at GBing but Christie has really good GBs as well. Pretty much these 2 are even. If ones bad at something (Like how Lisa is better with throws/punishments than Christie is better at speed) the other one has that thing they are bad at. And they both have pretty much similar abilities (crushes, mixups). So this IN MY OPINION is 5-5. But it probably is 6-4 Christie favor in reality.- This bitch. Well I honestly tried this and it worked fine, Lisa can out-space Sarah. Even though Sarah is Jesus and has everything, Lisa can space her out (which is kinda tough since Sarah never gets off your ass and is decent at mid-range) and crush a lot of her strings. Lisa, of course, is better and punishing and throws/holds. But yet again, Sarah gets a lot of frame advantages and is pretty safe. Like almost everything that puts her in FLA stance is +4, +6 etc etc. But the spacing part, I am not too positive about it because Sarah has 66p+k which is pretty useful in spacing and it parries, sweet Jesus. I don't have a ratio for this. Just know, its Sarah's favor though lol.
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Good summary.
AkaShocka
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I wrote it myself y'know
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
hmmm...I used to think 6-4 Christie...but I'm 5.5- 4.5 Christie and that is because she has strigns with build in sidesteps bot hare playing the stun games and can get some insane damage. hmm...but take my mu numbers with a grain of salt. I'll look into this one I' ma little timid to say 5-5 Zack.
Why do you think Christie vs. Zack is 5-5? She is faster than at high and on neutral and can match his mids. Does she have any good high or mid crushes?If she does then it's not an even MU.
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MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Ah okay. I get you yeah akShocka it's a 5-5...I jsut realize Zack can step kill badly and if Christie tries to pressure even with her i9 and mid strings Zack can crush them fore breakfast with 3P+K.
LOL dude...even JDE agrees that Kasumi beats Zack. Last time I checked Zack has a dick
hmmm...I used to think 6-4 Christie...but I'm 5.5- 4.5 Christie and that is because she has strigns with build in sidesteps bot hare playing the stun games and can get some insane damage. hmm...but take my mu numbers with a grain of salt. I'll look into this one I' ma little timid to say 5-5 Zack.
Why do you think Christie vs. Zack is 5-5? She is faster than at high and on neutral and can match his mids. Does she have any good high or mid crushes?If she does then it's not an even MU.
Lol! I actually haven't been playing. Haven't played in a while actually, Been busy with family traditions (Florida St. Football & college football Saturdays) & school festivities (got my associates degree but have my ceremony in May). I just now came back like a few days ago, so I really don't have an opinion on any matches at all yet. I have 5-5 until then unless Allan or Shade or somebody got their take.
Edit: That's what I had before, but that was a while ago though.
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QueenJakheiho
Well-Known Member
Jakheiho2kk? Never heard from that move.
Aye, you are correct.
QueenJakheiho
Well-Known Member
Jak1kk
Jak1k6k
Jak k
Jak p (!)
Jak p+k
1pk (!!!)
33p
4h+k
BT p+k
3p+kk
BT h+k
etc.
The point you mention 214p is not wrong but in close distance makes that moves no sense, its perfect to crush wake ups and to crush whiffs on range.
Jak1k6k
Jak k
Jak p (!)
Jak p+k
1pk (!!!)
33p
4h+k
BT p+k
3p+kk
BT h+k
etc.
The point you mention 214p is not wrong but in close distance makes that moves no sense, its perfect to crush wake ups and to crush whiffs on range.
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Ah, didn't realize the setting, I just mentioned two that I usually use when I need to crush Zack (just go with 6p or p otherwise and abuse the frame advantage where ever I can). That said Zack is a rare gem and you two seem to have more control on the setup than me. Buuut, the current MU is 5-5, and you seem to both agree on this so... ye. Anyways, if you (anyone) have more insight into any matchups please feel free to share. Try looking at the list and see current scores you disagree with, especially those marked as "outdated" or "little" on the right.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
214p is that move that sitdown stuns if so that isn't very good.
AkaShocka
Well-Known Member
Some opinions on 3 of Christie's MUs:
- I played against Blazeincarnated and realized that Zack tracks a lot. So the jakheiho isn't as good against him. His machine kicks can really fuck with her if she tries to jak. And is speed is better than hers but he has good enough speed to interrupt some of her options (like her kick strings). Zack does have a better reset though imo. Christie's 3p+kt is good but i think Zack's reset throw is a lot better. I really don't know who is better at range but my vote goes to Christie just because she has moves that range fairly decent (8pp, 236p, 66k, jak4p, 3p+k options etc.) but Blaze used a few moves that I think did about half-full screen. I don't know but these 2 imo are 5-5
- I had a good conversation with Tenryuga about this one. He does have good sweeps like pp6p2k or just 66p2k. If she jaks under 66p his sweep isn't going to hit her due to her already attacking after she ducked the 66p. Though he really can out space her and if she whiffs Ein will tear her a new asshole. At a distance jaking randomly is not good for Christie because Ein can come up with H+K or 2H+K. In spacing, Ein can wait for her to whiff and punish her but she can still fuck with his head. She can act like she whiffed a string and jak backjak to back up a bit and punish with the jakheiho throw (example: she can do pppp jak bakjak - jakhehio throw). Or she can force him to a wall and use a GB with range (236p, 3p+kp+k) and get many options from the GB. This is probably a 6-4 Christie favor.
- Christie can out-speed and out-space Tina without much difficulty. Tina's 1p is a good option against the jak though. Tina also has good tracking lows and mids and of course good low throws all of which are a threat to the jak. But a good Christie fighting Tina won't even try to depend on the jak just due to the fact that she is faster and has better mix ups or just space her out. In spacing Tina can use 66k, running k, 6h+k, or running T. The jak dodges all of those making it difficult for Tina to rush in. This is 6-4 Christie favor imo.
- I played against Blazeincarnated and realized that Zack tracks a lot. So the jakheiho isn't as good against him. His machine kicks can really fuck with her if she tries to jak. And is speed is better than hers but he has good enough speed to interrupt some of her options (like her kick strings). Zack does have a better reset though imo. Christie's 3p+kt is good but i think Zack's reset throw is a lot better. I really don't know who is better at range but my vote goes to Christie just because she has moves that range fairly decent (8pp, 236p, 66k, jak4p, 3p+k options etc.) but Blaze used a few moves that I think did about half-full screen. I don't know but these 2 imo are 5-5 - I had a good conversation with Tenryuga about this one. He does have good sweeps like pp6p2k or just 66p2k. If she jaks under 66p his sweep isn't going to hit her due to her already attacking after she ducked the 66p. Though he really can out space her and if she whiffs Ein will tear her a new asshole. At a distance jaking randomly is not good for Christie because Ein can come up with H+K or 2H+K. In spacing, Ein can wait for her to whiff and punish her but she can still fuck with his head. She can act like she whiffed a string and jak backjak to back up a bit and punish with the jakheiho throw (example: she can do pppp jak bakjak - jakhehio throw). Or she can force him to a wall and use a GB with range (236p, 3p+kp+k) and get many options from the GB. This is probably a 6-4 Christie favor. - Christie can out-speed and out-space Tina without much difficulty. Tina's 1p is a good option against the jak though. Tina also has good tracking lows and mids and of course good low throws all of which are a threat to the jak. But a good Christie fighting Tina won't even try to depend on the jak just due to the fact that she is faster and has better mix ups or just space her out. In spacing Tina can use 66k, running k, 6h+k, or running T. The jak dodges all of those making it difficult for Tina to rush in. This is 6-4 Christie favor imo.
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QueenJakheiho
Well-Known Member
Christie vs Ein is 5-5
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Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Out of curiosity what is your number for Christie Vs Eliot considering Eliot has better tools to deal with Christie up close than Ein does and struggles for the same reasons in the MU.