DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Crext
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SIDESTEP
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
I don't know if I'd call it comical because the thing that jumps out is speed; however, I've been beaten by Bass, Leon, Bayman, Rachael and they are slightly faster (except Bass). Btw, I had a couple of mirrors with some douche who told me it's easy to win with Alpha, but declined my challenge of 5 ranked matches (not against me but other players. I keep saying speed is not everything as Phase 4 is slightly faster than Alpha, but I've beaten her, too.
The last tme I fought Nyo-Tengu was against an S rank which he won. The rematch was a different story as I destroyed him. I believe it was her (my) ability to adapt quickly and it helps to have played against her lots of times (She learned how to defend against Phase 4 this way as well)
FME, she is AA fodder. (Liken her to Hawkgirl in Injustice vs. Deathstroke, Cyborg, Sinestro, Green Lantern). 8K delayed or all the way out H+K, H+K, 2H+K (if you're careful), 4K6K. Or throw out Alpha's fastest high/mid punches! It's quite obvious, if she's a holder (most are with me). I think I saw someone SS her wind-gust (I don't know how viable that is unless it's like Ryu's Nimpo attacks where you can either SSD or FSD - no pun intended)
But no, I don't find playing her funny. She's actually a pretty good character. (I guess Alpha, for you, takes a backseat! haha). I don't see you anymore! I don't think I've ever beaten you!
Some in depth MU discussion would be nice.
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
I'm so tired of this, Brute! I'm not as knowledgeable as I have already stated, so I described what I thought as best I could! I didn't say anything about Nyotengu negatively (I assume that's what you were looking for). Alpha's got better tools than Nyotengu, but that's not say much, does it?
Anti-Air! Given that Nyotengu can fly, how is that not relevant given what anti-air means! Anti-Ground? (Don't get me started, again!) But yeah, you wanna be off it since her "pounce" is more flashy and devastating, I guess! I already stated her keepaway/zoning stuff. But since you want numbers, I'll say it's 7-3 Alpha (Are you happy?)
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Darth Lotonic X
Active Member
If the Sarah-Bass match-up is 7-3 than so is the Sarah-Tengu. The only real difference is that Tengu's P+K is faster.
I think right now I have that match up as 6-4 Sarah - Bass. Because Bass did get buffed in Ultimate, and his High Crush leads to a good stun, but yeah I think i'd bump it back up to 7-3 because his buffs didn't really help him get in on Sarah or keep her out too much. He's still left practically guessing and going YOLO.
Edit: Ah, did have it as a 7-3, which I think the buffs from Bass brought it down from an 8-2 was my argument.
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
Hey, Alpha can troll, too, you know? XD
If you're not incredibly knowledgeable about the game then you really have no place to be saying that Alpha is underpowered, overpowered or really anything, nor are you in a position to contribute to meaningful MU discussion. People's intuitive experience is often mis-representative, which is why it requires extensive game knowledge and extensive MU experience in order to accurately analyze, asses and discuss MUs and Tiers.
I'm not trying to be mean or bully you, but many of us have extensive game knowledge and a ton of valid experience. So when you make some generalized statements that don't go into tech or specifics and simply reference some casual experiences you've had in online play and these are contra to the observations we've made and researched diligently and then openly admit that your knowledge is limited, you shouldn't be surprised that people don't consider that a valid contribution to MU discussion.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
Well, that on itself is not enough since they are both extremely linear and can both be sidestepped easily.
Akira's SS attacks are more potent than Kokoro's.
That alone I don't feel would make it 6-4, but it's still a big contributing factor.
As Brute said, he has potent SS attacks, and his 214P+K should be enough to dissuade sidesteppers most of the time. He nets equal or better damage than Kokoro does, has a number of guaranteed setups, has guard breaks which are relatively fast (and he's only hit for counter, not HiC, if the opponent's attack is faster than the guard break. Kokoro's heichu throw is garbage in comparison). He's also equally fast and has a high & low punch parry. If that's not enough, his 64T, if properly executed, deals 117 damage on HiC without a wall, so he beats Kokoro out in throw damage as well.
The only time I'd say this match is equal or slightly in Kokoro's favor is from mid range, but Akira has plenty of options to close space and bait attacks, one example being his 6P4.
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
No, you're saying I shouldn't have an opinion regardless of how ignorant (as you seem to be implying or worse, you rather fight me than help)!
I told yall straight up I lack in-depth knowledge! You act like this is a bad thing! Why? I honestly don't know! Yes, I'm going from experience, but who the hell here isn't - research be damned! I don't wanna make like gurus "show off," but it wouldn't surprise me if they did! The hardcore/casual divide, you know? I want help, but you rather do is put me down! Yes, I bitch, but nothing happens if one doesn't or have you not noticed? It's crap like this in any community that turns people off!
I know generalities, but can they lead to specifics that an help me understand my character better? You keep saying, it's a design flaw! I fucking get it! Is there anything I can specifically do to deal with it? I'm doing the best with what I have in terms of what I know! Can anybody will anybody? It seems to be clear you won't! (I was not even talking to you to begin with; yet, you so kindly interjected yourself into the conversation!)
No, I'm saying that you should go increase your knowledge and gain enough MU experience before trying to correct others who have already done so.
This is precisely the issue. A tier list is not a casual discussion. If you do not have a competitive, in-depth, knowledgeable and experienced perspective, you cannot contribute to a real tier list discussion.
If you want help using Alpha, that's what the Alpha boards are for.
But that's not what this thread is for and it's not even what you're doing in this thread, regardless if it was.
In summary, this is a thread for knowledgeable, competitive, insightful and experienced discussion on MUs, tech, details and application of that information into a broader understanding of the game's balance. The generalized, superficial impressions of casual players should not be factored into a tier list discussion because they are generally very conflicting and almost always misleading, as is the case here.
Alpha's matchup against DLC characters:
Marie Rose: 5-5 the side-step can be a problem, but Alpha has enough tracking moves to mash out of it... the weight is really what can make this an even match up. Otherwise I would give it to Alpha.
Phase 4: 4-6 a lot of characters don't struggle with Phase 4, but since Alpha and Phase 4 share a lot of the same frame properties in start ups, it's actually hard for Alpha to open Phase 4 up. If the Phase 4 player has decent knowledge of Alpha, she can evade all of Alpha's OH and good throws and that's always an issue when reflecting over Alpha MU.
Nyo-Tengu: 6-4 Nyo is pretty slow, and Alpha is just too fast for Nyo to keep up. RUSH also comes in handy in this MU. It will eat Nyo alive, even though she can crush highs, Alpha can crush her trying to crush highs. I need to explore this MU even further, but so far Alpha wins hands down.
Marie Rose: 5-5 the side-step can be a problem, but Alpha has enough tracking moves to mash out of it... the weight is really what can make this an even match up. Otherwise I would give it to Alpha.
Phase 4: 4-6 a lot of characters don't struggle with Phase 4, but since Alpha and Phase 4 share a lot of the same frame properties in start ups, it's actually hard for Alpha to open Phase 4 up. If the Phase 4 player has decent knowledge of Alpha, she can evade all of Alpha's OH and good throws and that's always an issue when reflecting over Alpha MU.
Nyo-Tengu: 6-4 Nyo is pretty slow, and Alpha is just too fast for Nyo to keep up. RUSH also comes in handy in this MU. It will eat Nyo alive, even though she can crush highs, Alpha can crush her trying to crush highs. I need to explore this MU even further, but so far Alpha wins hands down.
Yurlungur
Well-Known Member
@deathofaninja really you don't think phase is even with alpha? I mean the standard game after knocking down alpha is pressuring her and the main problem with that is since phase is really minus it can backfire playing a rushdown game. I play this mu with my friend a lot cause it think it's funny and we call it clone wars but i never feel like i'm at a huge disadvantage when i'm alpha because pressuring alpha is a risk especially when she's got good throws
Phase 4 wins over Alpha how all other characters do, but she also wins in speed and in crushes; speed being something Alpha is still feared over. Phase 4 is also one of the few characters that can evade Alpha's parry because of the range of her mids.
The reason most Phase 4 players are horrible is because you actually have to FC with Phase 4. Get that down and you have a pokey, fast character that can launch you off a whim and get explosive damage. When I see people, even Hajin says she is horrible, I think hard; and sulk into a corner and ball. I hate Phase 4.
The display pic of mine reflects her reaction to a missed parry and mine as well.
The reason most Phase 4 players are horrible is because you actually have to FC with Phase 4. Get that down and you have a pokey, fast character that can launch you off a whim and get explosive damage. When I see people, even Hajin says she is horrible, I think hard; and sulk into a corner and ball. I hate Phase 4.
The display pic of mine reflects her reaction to a missed parry and mine as well.
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