Tina Matchup Thread

Koompbala

Well-Known Member
My experience with 5U is limited character match up wise. This is pinned after all so I figure why not and revitalize this thread sorta. When it comes to match ups I like to speak character to character not what a certain person can do with said character. So that being said Brad should technically always lose to Tina. A lot of his "safe" stuff is safe against majority of the cast not Tina. His running P unsafe against only 4 characters Tina is one of those 4. His BT 2P+K also -5 low grab that too. His 6H+K which use to be safe and needed to be held just to low grab it is now punishable by all. His 7KK can be interrupted by Tinas 6H+K. His BT H+K SO NEGATIVE YOU CAN SHINNING WIZARD IT. I would just go for a 6H+K hits every time and its faster and less room for error. His handstand KKKK/H+K that too is -5 yet another move Tina can punish that most others cannot. Bradley's they love to do Reverse handstand P+K into 2P+K. Don't let them get away with that. The P+K is -8 6T for a nice chunk of 68 health. Pretty much every string the man has is punishable unless it ends with a GB. His lay stance both positions everything is unsafe from them except for his head facing K handstand transition thats a frame trap. Tina is one of the characters with the best set of grabs in the game, so if he wants to finish a string forget about it.

So really the only chance this man ever has of beating Tina is through string delays, not finishing strings, Handstand transitions, and P grabbing. This matchup easily goes to Tina. Thoughts? Did I miss anything?
 

connordavisj

New Member
Is there ANYTHING I can do against her? Good god...

Actually, might as well add Hitomi into that question as well. She may even be the priority.
 
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tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Well, I'm neither a Tina expert nor a Kasumi master, but I think I can give you some advice about Kasumi since I'm playing her exclusively. She might very fast, but most of her strings are highly unsafe on block and can be easily throw punished, which is one of Tina's strengths as far as I know. You should try to learn some of Kasumi's strings and combos to know what you should block and when to start offense. Tina has some nice moves to interrupt the opponents strings, for example 1P and 4K as far as I know.

You may also be able to use offensive holds more, even if you might run the risk of getting counter-thrown for that, Kasumi's throws are not as dangerous as other characters one's. Furthermore, spacing is not one of her strengths, she is most effective at close-mid-range, so you might can take advantage of that. She is also very contingent upon mid punching, so you should try to use equivalent holds more.

In case of Hitomi, I guess I can't give you some helpful tips, she's very balanced and effective in every discipline. Sorry that I don't get more detailed or technical, I'm also not very familiar with stuff like frame advantage and the movesets of every character, but I'm sure you will find a lot of helpful information about this in the character-specific forums.

Anyway, I hope it helps you a bit.
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Is there ANYTHING I can do against her? Good god...

Actually, might as well add Hitomi into that question as well. She may even be the priority.

The advice Tokyo just gave you will work against the majority of Kasumi players. Unfortunately, you were playing me in all of those matches, and the advice is good but not completely viable when playing someone who knows what they are doing with her as well knowing what your character can do to potentially stop her.

Attacking while she is attacking is a no-no. I am sure you are now aware of this.

Throw punishing helps a great deal for you but when you are playing someone experienced with her you won't have many chances to do that. So you need to capitalize on it every chance you get in the neutral game when a string is completed or an attack that doesn't have a follow up except for 66K in open space or anything that she does to guard break you. You can throw her pokes if you block them, except for P and 2P but I do not advise that. You can be ballsy and throw her if she pokes with an attack that does have a follow up but, keep in mind she thrives off CH damage, and you don't want to give her that if you can help it.

Your Offensive Holds need to be setup or well placed, just chucking them will get you blown up. Someone good will Fuzzy Guard them, or simply KBD away, which is what I was doing to you every time you tried to use them on me.

Spacing is not one of Tina's strengths either. You are just as limited as Kasumi is when you back away from her. So it won't make a real big difference to space hard on Kasumi. You also whiff'd Tina's attacks that she has to come in with which you got hurt for doing that. You also got to see first hand she doesn't have many options to rush down with. You have to get close to her or at least keep her at a mid range, and read what is going on before you decide to hit a button.

Kasumi is not contingent on mid-punches, and Connor I am sure you know this because you were getting hit at all hit levels playing against me. So learn her stings and react to them accordingly. You should also know from playing me that her throws are highly dangerous. When you add in the arbitrary damage from a fight with her stunning/poking you around every corner, you cannot afford to be high counter thrown by her. You low hold you eat 94pts of damage, you stand and hold you eat 100+pts of damage *note this is also another reason as to why you shouldn't pick the habit up of holding mid punches against her. Now, When you are not being Hi Counter thrown the most she can take from you is 70pts of damage without the environment. In comparison between Tina and Kasumi, Tina is clearly better at throwing. Still, given how Kasumi should be applied her throw damage is great.

1P is good as well as HOLD3P it crushes too. 1p is only good when it's landed on CH and I don't hit the buttons wildly, so you will hit me with that on NH more often than not. 4K is also good as well and doing 4K again when you are BT will crush. The things you will crush are Kasumi's P, 6P, and her 2P. 6P does not have any range and 4K gives a slight push back, 2P has no range as well and it gets treated like 6P. 4P is another story, you will get hit by that. Tina is at a disadvantage when she does 4K, -6 at the moment but soon it will be -5 but she will still get beat out by certain attacks. Doing 4K at tip range is what you want to do. At that point Kasumi can't do anything to you.

For Hitomi she is subject to be crushed a bit more than Kasumi. The lot of her strings either go high or end up going high. Hitomi's whiff punishers are unsafe 46P and 236P, except for 66h+K.

I am pretty sure the issue you are having with her is knowing when will she stop once she gets started, welcome to club on this one. Again, like what was advised with Kasumi, learn her strings. The entire cast has to deal with Hitomi's delayable strings and it's dumb how she take a linear string and make it track at any given point in time while she hitting buttons. The reason for that though is how the SS was designed, so you have to apply more than one SS to get away from her and you have to hope your timing is on point. However, once you learn her strings you'll find out that you can crush either immediately once she starts them or after the 2nd hit of it.

I like how you came across a problem and you came here to ask. I hope the advise you got and get will help you deal with these characters better. Good games to you.
 

tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
The advice Tokyo just gave you will work against the majority of Kasumi players. Unfortunately, you were playing me in all of those matches, and the advice is good but not completely viable when playing someone who knows what they are doing with her as well knowing what your character can do to potentially stop her.

Yes, since he is marked as a new member, I was not sure how familiar he is with DOA in general, that why I was trying to give some basic information that probably will work against most Kasumi players. But if you've played against Allan Paris, you seem to know the basics. I think Allen can be considered as one of the most experienced Kasumi players around, so you can forget about some of my words.

Spacing is not one of Tina's strengths either. You are just as limited as Kasumi is when you back away from her. So it won't make a real big difference to space hard on Kasumi. You also whiff'd Tina's attacks that she has to come in with which you got hurt for doing that. You also got to see first hand she doesn't have many options to rush down with. You have to get close to her or at least keep her at a mid range, and read what is going on before you decide to hit a button.

Like I said before, I'm not very familiar with Tina's strengths and weaknesses, so you better listen to Allen lol.

Kasumi is not contingent on mid-punches, and Connor I am sure you know this because you were getting hit at all hit levels playing against me.

Hmm ... somehow, everyone is talking different things in different sub forums here at FSD, sometimes I'm not sure what I should believe.

I remember a discussion about Kasumi's best pokes in her sub forum. Someone clearly said that she is contingent on mid-attacks, especially punches, because they are faster. That's also why Helena's BKO is a problem for her.

See here, post number 143 from Tenryuga:

http://www.freestepdodge.com/thread...kasumis-gameplay-doa5u-discussion.2939/page-8

Of course, that does not mean that Tina should spam mid holds against Kasumi. Like Allan said, she also has some throws that can be used for dealing a decent amount of damage. That also depends on how familiar the Kasumi player is with them.

1P is good as well as HOLD3P it crushes too. 1p is only good when it's landed on CH and I don't hit the buttons wildly, so you will hit me with that on NH more often than not. 4K is also good as well and doing 4K again when you are BT will crush. The things you will crush are Kasumi's P, 6P, and her 2P. 6P does not have any range and 4K gives a slight push back, 2P has no range as well and it gets treated like 6P. 4P is another story, you will get hit by that. Tina is at a disadvantage when she does 4K, -6 at the moment but soon it will be -5 but she will still get beat out by certain attacks. Doing 4K at tip range is what you want to do. At that point Kasumi can't do anything to you.

That's what I meant when I said "more technical" :cool:
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Hmm ... somehow, everyone is talking different things in different sub forums here at FSD, sometimes I'm not sure what I should believe.

I remember a discussion about Kasumi's best pokes in her sub forum. Someone clearly said that she is contingent on mid-attacks, especially punches, because they are faster. That's also why Helena's BKO is a problem for her.

See here, post number 143 from Tenryuga:

http://www.freestepdodge.com/thread...kasumis-gameplay-doa5u-discussion.2939/page-8

I am barely around to discuss anything game related. I just mod and keep it moving. Since I am talking now I will look into this thread. Thanks for linking it.
 

tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I am barely around to discuss anything game related. I just mod and keep it moving. Since I am talking now I will look into this thread. Thanks for linking it.

I don't meant to criticize anything, of course, as a moderator you can't read everything. Maybe I also got it wrong, but as a Kasumi player I also have this point of view.
 

Koompbala

Well-Known Member
Is there ANYTHING I can do against her? Good god...

Actually, might as well add Hitomi into that question as well. She may even be the priority.

It would help if you mentioned who your talking about but judging from the replies in this thead I know now. Luckily Allan gave a competent and detailed answer, so I don't need to say much more but I'll add what I can. I will also reinforce some of the things he already pointed out. Hopefully all this helps.

Throw punishing helps a great deal for you but when you are playing someone experienced with her you won't have many chances to do that. So you need to capitalize on it every chance you get in the neutral game when a string is completed or an attack that doesn't have a follow up except for 66K in open space or anything that she does to guard break you. You can throw her pokes if you block them, except for P and 2P but I do not advise that. You can be ballsy and throw her if she pokes with an attack that does have a follow up but, keep in mind she thrives off CH damage, and you don't want to give her that if you can help it.

^This can't stress this enough this game is based around the triangle system throws being the most important of that system. In the back of my head I always knew they were the most important. But VirtuaPai just recently hit me in the face with the triangle system and reminded me they are the most important. Throws beat holds, OH's beat holds, and OH's beat strikes, then throws beat OH's. Tina has all of these plus a set of grabs that do the most damage. When you have a chance to punish Kasumi do it like Allan said. 2 more moves to add to that safe list is 66K(on hit K) and 4H+K same move as Busa's both are safe at -1 I believe. Any other move besides those 3 punish that shit like Allan said make use of what Tina is good at. In vanilla Kasumi's elbow was semi-safe -7 had pushback and was unholdable. They actually made it good in vanilla. In 5U punish that garbage its holdable now, -8, and doesnt push back anymore. In vanilla there were only two situations where Tina could punish the elbow 1 being 9K6P and the other being 6PP I believe. In 5U you can punish any elbow she does. Again though like what Allan said a good Kasumi won't finish strings all the time so punish when you can. Again what Allan said if your yomi is good you know for sure Kas is gonna stop a string go for it but don't make a habit of it.

Your Offensive Holds need to be setup or well placed, just chucking them will get you blown up. Someone good will Fuzzy Guard them, or simply KBD away, which is what I was doing to you every time you tried to use them on me.

Tina's 46H is one example when I do it in open space people dash away from Tina's 66T OH. Just to get them I gotta hit them with 6H+K just to catch the opponent from dashing away. Hits everytime I done it to an opponent that dashes away.

Spacing is not one of Tina's strengths either. You are just as limited as Kasumi is when you back away from her. So it won't make a real big difference to space hard on Kasumi. You also whiff'd Tina's attacks that she has to come in with which you got hurt for doing that. You also got to see first hand she doesn't have many options to rush down with. You have to get close to her or at least keep her at a mid range, and read what is going on before you decide to hit a button.

Another Kasumi secret kinda not really this is known among Kasumi's like the elbow, but her 66PP gives her a free Hoshinpo mix up. That 2nd P is a high duck that shit don't let that mix up get that far. There are other tips but I can't think of shit cause I'm drunk right now well buzzed. But yeah I got more to say but can't think of it.
 

StrikerSashi

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Rig's frame advantage relies a lot on forcing you to block highs. Learn his strings and throw out 1P and 44P when you think he'll go for it. He wants to use his strings and his throws aren't that good (even his launch throw barely does higher than the average 12f) so it's not a bad idea to throw out holds if you have a good idea what move is next in the string. His 7P and 7K do not guarantee a 66K. Slow escape that shit. Don't let them run that chain sitdown. They do guarantee a 33K launch, though. He not especially fast, it's mostly frame advantage. His BND 4H+K guarantees a looot of damage so watch for it and hold it.

Leifang wants you to go in on her. Poke with single strikes. Don't use strings against her or she'll crush the first hit and CH the second one. Her Unshu T is throwable on reaction. Buffer a 41236 when you see her go into Unshu and press T when you see (and hear) her go for the OH. You can definitely react to it. Her punch are mostly unsafe and her kicks are mostly safe. Her 3P+K is a retardedly strong crush, but block it and she's at -15 backturn. That means a free big backturn combo. Her crushes in general are all really unsafe. Don't let her use 6H+K in neutral. That shit is so slow. Hold it. Sidestep it. Don't block it. Don't block 1P+K either. Can't realistically sidestep 1P+K, though. Backdash it if you can and whiff punish it with a FC64T. If you do block 6H+K or 1P+K, it's better to keep blocking. She can easily crush or otherwise beat everything you do, even though she's at -3. Her low kick is usually the third hit of a punch string except for 3P, when it can be second or third. Watch her hands and you can actually react to the kick if you really focus.

Kasumi's a bitch.
 
Guys i really have big issue!
I can't tell in DOA world if this move can be punishable or not...

In 2D games when anybody throw Shoryuken or unsafe move i can tell by watching it so i punish.
Also in Tekken when some one throw juggle or launcher and if you blocked you can punish it
by throw or by hit them.

1)But here when i play against ninjas or any Chrs when they finish their 3 hit string(without guard break) while am blocking, and go for a normal throw or 6T i find myself eating a punch in my face.

2)recently i learn by watching there is some moves if you throw it you can punish it by 2T
after blocked that attack like Ryu when he throw himself to you.

3)Finally I just know that i can throw punish on whiff hold or strike by 6T or 2 in 1 meter distant between me & my opponent which i never imagine it that i can reach him by that distant.

So am hoping if we can open discussion regards this.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Guys i really have big issue!
I can't tell in DOA world if this move can be punishable or not...

In 2D games when anybody throw Shoryuken or unsafe move i can tell by watching it so i punish.
Also in Tekken when some one throw juggle or launcher and if you blocked you can punish it
by throw or by hit them.

1)But here when i play against ninjas or any Chrs when they finish their 3 hit string(without guard break) while am blocking, and go for a normal throw or 6T i find myself eating a punch in my face.

2)recently i learn by watching there is some moves if you throw it you can punish it by 2T
after blocked that attack like Ryu when he throw himself to you.

3)Finally I just know that i can throw punish on whiff hold or strike by 6T or 2 in 1 meter distant between me & my opponent which i never imagine it that i can reach him by that distant.

So am hoping if we can open discussion regards this.

Hey, not the perfect place for it, but it still applies to Tina and I was surprised no one tried addressing this.

1) You need to mash the throw to ensure you initiate the throw from the first available frame after block stun. If you're using a command throw like 6T, then hold the direction while mashing the throw or the throw macro. That's the easiest way you can ensure a punish.

The rest are things you'll get the hang of playing the game more. Yes, there are high and low punishment for moves either standing or crouching.

If you're in Saudi, I suggest getting in touch with @EMPEROR_COW and learn from him. He can teach you the game and the system and he has very good general character knowledge.
 

EMPEROR_COW

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Hey, not the perfect place for it, but it still applies to Tina and I was surprised no one tried addressing this.

1) You need to mash the throw to ensure you initiate the throw from the first available frame after block stun. If you're using a command throw like 6T, then hold the direction while mashing the throw or the throw macro. That's the easiest way you can ensure a punish.

The rest are things you'll get the hang of playing the game more. Yes, there are high and low punishment for moves either standing or crouching.

If you're in Saudi, I suggest getting in touch with @EMPEROR_COW and learn from him. He can teach you the game and the system and he has very good general character knowledge.

He lives in Jeddah

I've been begging him to play for the longest time.. even if its just online...

<__<
 

Darth Lotonic X

Active Member
You know, just Lisa things.

An addition to Lisa match-up that applies to everyone (not just Tina) is that Lisa is never at advantage when she goes BT. If she goes BT, hit her with your fastest mid.

Also, if you get hit or block her 66K, and she goes into her run stance; just jab. Worst case scenario, you get knocked down.
 

ailingeternity

Active Member
Long post, sorry guys...

The point of the mid is to stop Lisa's bullshit. To tell her "No, it's my turn to attack now!".

Gruff is completely right, she may be negative after transitioning into BT but almost all of her BT transitions are safe meaning it just forces her to be on the defensive, from there you're going to do your mids? Lisa has a beastly BT backdash that limits Tina's options for damage in retaliation when she uses moves like :3::K:, all she has to do is block afterward and easy punishment. This does change after moves like :9::K: and :1::P::P: when she is closer to Tina.

Regarding :3::K::4: (as well as strings that lead into which is undeniably her most common transition) Tina's ranged moves are also open to throw punishment (Lisa has grappler benefits too) or not fast enough to punish the backdash, even things like :6::6::K: and :6::h::+::K: cannot catch up. Now what you CAN do is use :6::h::+::P: on her if she backdashes, it will catch her out, but be extremely careful of BT :4::P: if she decides to use it, it's a full launch combo for her if she snuffs you out, you can wait this out and throw punish accordingly if you anticipate it but Lisa just has too many BT options against you if you're going to turtle.

If you decide to chase after her by striking your options are slim and yield average reward, reason being is if Lisa sidesteps after backdashing, moves like :6::h::+::K: :236::P: :4::6::P: and :6::6::K: can be blocked and punished they don't track too so it's another favourable situation Lisa is given, if Lisa doesn't sidestep :4::6::P: will net you a small window of advantage (this will leave you at approximately +3). You can try :1::K: vs her sidesteps but it won't cause a knockdown due to range also bear in mind it's a very seeable low. A good option to chase after her would be an offensive hold, it will catch out her sidestep shenanigans (:6::6::h::+::P: tracks) and if she decides to block, standing offensive holds also catch out :1::P: so she can't crush Tina effectively, Lisa's :1::K: will crush but is a highly unrecommended choice since she will hit Tina on neutral (-10) and it's follow-ups leave much to be desired. Ultimately all Lisa has to do is look for :4::6::P: or :1::K: after she backdashes and if she anticipates correctly it's a throw punish or a free :3::h::+::P: combo (she can technically avoid OHs completely by choosing to guard :1::K:), it completely outclasses Tina's 50/50 options so if you mess up you're the one eating the dust more than the other. :4::6::P: is the best option imo and allows Tina a slight pressure game again (albeit with no damage outcome) so don't be afraid to use it, happy guessing!! :lisa:
 
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