DOA5U Trying to learn Sarah, but feeling like DOA isn't the game for this.

[Kudja Is Loved]

I should say upfront that I am not the biggest DOA fan in the world. The game, in my opinion, isn't very deep. It doesn't offer the player much as far as fighting mechanics go. It tries to make up what it lacks in actual depth of gameplay with flashy moves, destructible environments (even going as far as to giving the objects properties that add combo potential, bleh) and general mash-friendliness. But for some reason, for all of the things I can see that DOA does completely wrong, I really have fallen in love with the game.

That being said, I switched from Hayabusa to Sarah, and i'm going to stick with Sarah permanently but the more I learn with Sarah the harder I find it is to actually use Sarah to her fullest potential due to the sheer amount of pushing buttons from disadvantage that goes on in DOA. I can't set up any pressure from Flamingo stance typically, because people are always pushing some button somewhere. I hate having to respect that, I can't stand having to let them bulldog me until I find a chance to 6P or 6P4K just to TRY to take some of the control back. The worst part about it is that I don't have to put up with any of that silliness when i'm playing Hayabusa, or any other DOA native for that matter.

Is there something i'm missing about this game and pushing buttons? Am I really just stuck having to deal with it until I see a chance to button back? Halp!

 

[Squizzo]

Is there something i'm missing about this game and pushing buttons? Am I really just stuck having to deal with it until I see a chance to button back? Halp!

Do you mean that you're having trouble fighting opponents who constantly strike? If so you can either block and wait for something punishable or attempt a hold. You can also try throwing them off with a jab or quick low, or back up and space them out.

 

[synce]

Maybe I'm reading something wrong but even in DOA's ridiculous lag you shouldn't be getting hit if you're truly at advantage, especially with Sarah who's specialty is abare (both VF and DOA). I'd double check the frame data

 

[StrikerSashi]

Firstly, environment damage is incentive to actually space. It's very important in mid to high level play to position yourself so that you can hit the other person into the environment. It's the same concept as corner combos in 2D fighters.

Now, FLA 6K and FLA P2KK are good moves to throw out there if they're disrespecting frames after a good transition (4K, 4P+K, etc). FLA P+K will kill people who try to 2P (which beats all her other options from P+K on block). You'll get beat out by 9f jabs after P+K on block no matter what, though, unless you make a super hard read.

If you know they're gonna hit a button, P+K can parry mids and highs. FLA 3K is very useful to stop people who mash slower crushes to try and evade Sarah's good highs 'cause CH/stun 3K gives you a free launch and scares them from trying again. 3P+K crushes highs so even at minor disadvantage, you can force them to use a slower mid attack instead of a fast high. 2H+K gives a lot of stun, even on NH, and it crushes as well.

If you get something negative blocked, you should still stop your offense there. Picking Sarah doesn't mean you can ignore how the game works. Unless you know they're gonna do a high (or a throw) and you want to crush it, just block. Preferably fuzzy, most of the time. You have a good 2P (not Akira good or Ayane good, though) to stop their pressure, so it's that bad. Your throw punishes are kinda bad though.

Honestly, if getting mashed out is a problem as Sarah, you don't fully understand the game mechanics. Now, it is a problem that she doesn't have long strings (and like two or three strings that aren't second hit high (Jun syndrome!)) but with her frames, you don't really need strings. You can't do Hitomi style pressure, but that's the price for hella frames and hella stun launch.

EDIT: The most common problem is that people think, "Oh, I'm fast and have good frames on block. I can just keep hitting buttons." And then a Bass comes and wrecks them. You have to respect the other person's options and play it safe.

EDIT: By the way, Sarah is sooooo good in this compared to VF. If you're gonna play VF, I suggest you don't Sarah in DOA 'cause it'll mess up the learning curve for VF5FS Sarah.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

The game, in my opinion, isn't very deep. It doesn't offer the player much as far as fighting mechanics go. It tries to make up what it lacks in actual depth of gameplay with flashy moves, destructible environments (even going as far as to giving the objects properties that add combo potential, bleh) and general mash-friendliness.

wait.. what???
I advise you to watch and study this:

As for Sarah...

I find it is to actually use Sarah to her fullest potential due to the sheer amount of pushing buttons from disadvantage that goes on in DOA.

again.. you aren't using her correctly at all...
1) Sarah has a ton of frame advantage compared to the entire cast.
2) She has a ton of guaranteed followups, from sitdown, from 2 faint stuns, 2-in-1 natural combos, and hit throws.
3) Almost every entry into FL on block puts her at + frames except for 6P4K which you shouldnt be using unless you started a stun in the first place (it puts u at -3).
3) Staying in FL isn't a smart thing to do since a) She cant block and b) she cant hold while in FL.. the way Sarah should be played is by considering FL as a supportive stance and the main stance bein when neutral. The P+K parry during FL is only effective VS low punch and is very tricky to use.. dont bother with it unless you know whats coming.
4) When in FL at a disadvantage, using 4P+K is a great get out of trouble evasive move as she is unhittable for a good amount of the move (but she is still vulnderable to throw)

I advise taking this conversation up in the Sarah forum to get better info from the Sarah players them selves.. but I advise learning the correct way of playing the game as a whole before trying to progress with her .. or any character for that matter.

 

[Argentus]

DOA? Mashy? are you joking? tthe whole reason I stick to DOA is that its one of the deepest fighters, and moreso because its one of, if not the only, fighters out there, that ISN'T Mashy. other games you can just button mash combos, and largely not have a care in the world due to mechanics being more focused on string execution than any kind of combat prowess. DOA is one of the only games where being good at fighting actually translates into a fighting game. (for the most part.)

 

[Kudja Is Loved]

I've actually watched a lot of your videos on DOA, Emperor. I'm not new to the game, and I understand the mechanics of DOA really well. But I have my opinion of the game, and my opinion is that in comparison to the rest of the games I play at a high level DOA is probably at the bottom of the list of games that I think have depth of their engine. Thats just my opinion, I recognize it isn't fact and i'm not trying to offend anyone by saying it but i'm not really going to try to defend it either. If i'm wrong, i'm wrong. No big deal to me.

My issue with people pushing buttons constantly is with Sarah, and Sarah only. I've been playing her for less than 2 weeks maximum, and i'm having a huge problem with people responding to anything I do with strikes. Thats my only issue here, I can't make sense of how to deal with it as Sarah, thats all. But some of this information might help, i'll put it together.

 

[Brute]

I switched from Hayabusa to Sarah

Dropped the coolest character for the lamest one.

In other news, you're saying you have a problem applying pressure because people are always pushing buttons. You say you have this problem with Sarah and not Hayabusa. Let's go over how this works:

Sarah is unbelievably safe (arguably the safest character in the game) with frame advantage pouring out her ass. She is incredibly fast, with the fastest mid speed class in the game. She has good low pokes that are +on NH (or hit throws, 'cause why not?). She has tons of mix-ups. She has tons of sabakis built into her movements. She is a top-tier pressure/rushdown character.

Hayabusa is wildly unsafe, has some of the worst string mix-ups in the game, has garbage lows, no good way to open someone up in the neutral game and is stuck at 10/13/14. He is not a top tier character, nor a pressure/rushdown character.

All I can speculate is that you're fighting the wrong people. Hayabusa is troubled with the "someone is always pressing a button" issue way, way, way more than Sarah, or really 90% of the roster, is. Furthermore, you said you made the switch to Sarah permanently, but you only have this problem with Sarah, of all counter-intuitive things. So why in the world would you make that switch? I can't even...

Anyway, it's hard to advise someone's playstyle unless I see/experience it for myself, so if you want to add me on PSN and do a few rounds, just let me know. Otherwise, hit up @AkaShocka as he can show you what a cheap-ass bitch Sarah is

 

[StrikerSashi]

A lot of it is seeing how much you can get away with. If they respect P 6P (they should), see if you can get away with P 4K. Or just P 41236T. 'Cause screw them, you're Sarah. They try to jab? 2H+K or 3P+K. They mash mids? Go back to 6P. Keep them guessing. Do they always poke at the same spots? If you can continue the string, try that. If there's no string afterward, just don't reach the part they mash at. Just stop right before and throw them. What's your fighting game background?

 

[AkaShocka]

Y'know DOA may have mash-friendly things, which I do agree w7th, mashing in this game gets you destroyed. I will be honest, when I first played this I thought the same especially when I chose Kasumi and Christie and did there punch strings. Then later I was getting thrown for mashing with them. So I checked out frame data and realized that they are unsafe. But DOA is not the only mash friendly, I promise. People can mash in Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, Blazblue and everything else (Tekken isnt mash friendly imo). When I was younger me and my sister playerd fighters and all we did was mash so I can tell you what in can mash in lol. Also, knowing which move causes deeper stun, lift stun, sitdown etc etc thats a lot. Also knowing every characters ups and downs and unsafes is important (but thats in every FG though). Being mashy in DOA gets you tore up, it may have mash-friendly characters but you mash with them and get blocked and held? Lol good game.

Anywho, back to Sarah.
As Sarah you have pretty much everything you need. Sarah is very safe, great mixups, beautiful combo damage, frame advantages and hit throws. As Sarah the only characters you REALLY need to be watch out for are Genfu, Christie, and Ayane as they all can easily crush and outspace her. You shouldn't have trouble with mashers after you into FLA on block since she can do 4p+k and nothing can hit her or you can use 8p+k or 4p+kh and that can place her behind the foe (unless they use a tracking move). And she also has many plus frames after entering FLA (except 6p4k as that is -3 I believe). Also, moves like 6kp, 6pp, kp all can be continued into 2 other stances (slide shuffle and and back slide shuffle. Both of these have a parry in them, that can really help against mashers.) for more mixups or a parry.

 

[Argentus]

(Tekken isnt mash friendly imo).

Eddie Gordo. I Swear Maxi is his ancestor...

 

[Kudja Is Loved]

A lot of it is seeing how much you can get away with. If they respect P 6P (they should), see if you can get away with P 4K. Or just P 41236T. 'Cause screw them, you're Sarah. They try to jab? 2H+K or 3P+K. They mash mids? Go back to 6P. Keep them guessing. Do they always poke at the same spots? If you can continue the string, try that. If there's no string afterward, just don't reach the part they mash at. Just stop right before and throw them. What's your fighting game background?

When Soul Calibur 4 was in rotation, I was a top player in that for quite some time.
Then Street Fighter IV, and i've been playing that almost exclusively since 2009 with a good bit of tournament success. Not a major win yet though, bleh.
I play Soul 5, but I don't compete.
I have no tournament or competitive history with DOA, and I think thats probably what the problem for me is. Although i'm very familiar with the game and how it plays, playing it at a high or even medium level hasn't clicked for me yet.

So when I say DOA is Mashy, I don't mean that its any more or less mashy than any other fighter i've played. I just mean that its a lot more blatant in the environment I have played up to this point, in comparison to the games i've played in the past and i'm perfectly willing to be wrong. I need to learn, thats my entire goal right now, learning Sarah because shes fun.

 

[Dr Snipe]

When Soul Calibur 4 was in rotation, I was a top player in that for quite some time.
Then Street Fighter IV, and i've been playing that almost exclusively since 2009 with a good bit of tournament success. Not a major win yet though, bleh.
I play Soul 5, but I don't compete.
I have no tournament or competitive history with DOA, and I think thats probably what the problem for me is. Although i'm very familiar with the game and how it plays, playing it at a high or even medium level hasn't clicked for me yet.

So when I say DOA is Mashy, I don't mean that its any more or less mashy than any other fighter i've played. I just mean that its a lot more blatant in the environment I have played up to this point, in comparison to the games i've played in the past and i'm perfectly willing to be wrong. I need to learn, thats my entire goal right now, learning Sarah because shes fun.

I will attest to the 2P stopping most mashers especially if its online your talking about.

 

[Nereus]

I should say upfront that I am not the biggest DOA fan in the world. The game, in my opinion, isn't very deep. It doesn't offer the player much as far as fighting mechanics go. It tries to make up what it lacks in actual depth of gameplay with flashy moves, destructible environments (even going as far as to giving the objects properties that add combo potential, bleh) and general mash-friendliness. But for some reason, for all of the things I can see that DOA does completely wrong, I really have fallen in love with the game.

That being said, I switched from Hayabusa to Sarah, and i'm going to stick with Sarah permanently but the more I learn with Sarah the harder I find it is to actually use Sarah to her fullest potential due to the sheer amount of pushing buttons from disadvantage that goes on in DOA. I can't set up any pressure from Flamingo stance typically, because people are always pushing some button somewhere. I hate having to respect that, I can't stand having to let them bulldog me until I find a chance to 6P or 6P4K just to TRY to take some of the control back. The worst part about it is that I don't have to put up with any of that silliness when i'm playing Hayabusa, or any other DOA native for that matter.

Is there something i'm missing about this game and pushing buttons? Am I really just stuck having to deal with it until I see a chance to button back? Halp!

First and foremost, DOA is not mashy in the slightest bit. The reason why you say that is most likely because your fighting people who don't know what they're doing and use online tactics to win. The problem with this game is that the majority of players don't travel and are forced to play in a Dreamcast netcode, and those who use these ridiculous tactics can get away with it. Like COW said, this game has quite a bit of depth in it. As to what Brute said, he is correct. Sarah has a ton of frame advantage out the ass, but it's not invincible. Like Jacky, you have to
know quite a bit about the game in order to utilize her frame traps well. I say this because this game has retarded crushes such as Gen Fu's 3P (Not entirely a crush though, just prioritizes a lot of moves) that can prevent you from doing anything to your opponent. Jacky shares the same problem. If i do 2P+K4 he's +6, but due to the crush system, that limits what i can do and certain characters can completely ignore the frame trap with their crushes.

 

[DestructionBomb]

It could be just the online as well.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Neetpray.

 

[David Gregg]

The game, in my opinion, isn't very deep...
It doesn't offer the player much as far as fighting mechanics go...
It tries to make up what it lacks in actual depth of gameplay with flashy moves, destructible environments and general mash-friendliness...

wait...what?!?! -_- ? All I'm going to say is the more you play this game and get more experience, the less you will think of it as mash friendly (and this is coming from a Tekken player).

 

[synce]

You can't really blame people for assuming DOA is mashy though... Imagine if you're just getting into the series and have to learn the hit levels of 30+ movelists just for a CHANCE to counter correctly during strings. Most people won't do it so they just mash random counters. And because everything stuns, you can just mash random strings too. The stun/counter system is probably the biggest thing holding DOA back from expanding.

 

[Argentus]

You can't really blame people for assuming DOA is mashy though... Imagine if you're just getting into the series and have to learn the hit levels of 30+ movelists just for a CHANCE to counter correctly during strings. Most people won't do it so they just mash random counters. And because everything stuns, you can just mash random strings too. The stun/counter system is probably the biggest thing holding DOA back from expanding.

but the counter system is precisely why the game isnt as mashy as most fighters, people can't just mash combos like they do in other fighters without getting countered, and thats why DOA is hated, I've found. peopleclaim that DOA is just mashing counters, because they can't just mash strings lol.

 

[StrikerSashi]

How can you call doing optimal combos mashing? Unless you're talking about P4U/Stylish type stuff, that's so ignorant. Hit confirming random hits into optimal combo routes takes a lot of effort. How can you tell someone that they shouldn't judge DOA before understanding it when you're doing the same thing to other games?