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SilverForte
Well-Known Member
I didn't see a singular throw there that did more than an izuna, just the combo afterwards did like 2 more points than a raw izuna, on a lightweight char.
Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
My scrub Rachel. 
Losses:
Wins:
Comments/criticism welcome.
Losses:
Wins:
Comments/criticism welcome.
You lost with Rachel? That had to take some work.
In general, you should be a bit more aggressive. You have a plethora of safe strings and good mix-ups, and yet you back off after you have the advantage with her 66T and don't really capitalize on her force tech.
In general, you should be a bit more aggressive. You have a plethora of safe strings and good mix-ups, and yet you back off after you have the advantage with her 66T and don't really capitalize on her force tech.
Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
I don't always follow up after 66T 'cause my fingers panic. That was day 2 for me, I'm still getting muscle memory down...
What should I be doing after 2K? I know if the stomp hits I can pretty much do whatever I want, but if they back tech I pretty much get hit out of my 6P/6K damn near all the time (or at least that's what it feels like). Is it online?
ed. I was buggin about this so I went and checked it. Stomp whiff, 6P.... Not even Kasumi can interrupt, so either it's my timing or it really is online.
I guess I'll just start mashing after 2K then.
What should I be doing after 2K? I know if the stomp hits I can pretty much do whatever I want, but if they back tech I pretty much get hit out of my 6P/6K damn near all the time (or at least that's what it feels like). Is it online?
ed. I was buggin about this so I went and checked it. Stomp whiff, 6P.... Not even Kasumi can interrupt, so either it's my timing or it really is online.
I guess I'll just start mashing after 2K then.
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Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
Shiranui
Well-Known Member
Some victories using Rachel here
http://www.youtube.com/user/shiranuininja/videos
I don't upload losses, but I lose more often than I win... Everybody is saying Rachel is overpowered, but I don't see this at all. Since most of her punches are mid she is very easy to stop, and I can't compete against Ayane and Kasumi speedness, or against Helena, to name some of my worst nightmares...
Any comments/suggestions/advices/rachel tutorial to improve? Thanks
As you can see the better tool i found with rachel is 1PP, throw in air, 6PKP. that's all. any other tip?
I don't upload losses, but I lose more often than I win... Everybody is saying Rachel is overpowered, but I don't see this at all. Since most of her punches are mid she is very easy to stop, and I can't compete against Ayane and Kasumi speedness, or against Helena, to name some of my worst nightmares...
Any comments/suggestions/advices/rachel tutorial to improve? Thanks
As you can see the better tool i found with rachel is 1PP, throw in air, 6PKP. that's all. any other tip?
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Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
You're not using the blender at all. Any reason why?
Rachel's not going to be anywhere close to OP if you don't utilize BlendTec.
4PPPP is an OK string, but you shouldn't really be relying on it so much. Go for a Critical Burst combo instead, or even 4PPPP+KT.
In the stage "Home" there are a lot of "stumble stuns", when you hit an enemy into a wall/table/bed/etc. You can continue your combo when they're down, I like to run over and use 1PP.
When you land 8K axe kick, normally you should be seeking to go directly into 7P launch, air throw.
The best/easiest combo for 1PP is 1PP, 9P, air throw, 6PK, 2K (starts the blender).
Check out the combo topic sometime.
How much of the DOA basic system do you know? Baiting a hold for a Hi-Counter throw really helps sometimes.
You're a pretty disrespectful player... ._.
At least, I would try to refrain from taunting mid-match, since to my knowledge you can't cancel a taunt so you'll be left wide open.
Rachel's not going to be anywhere close to OP if you don't utilize BlendTec.
4PPPP is an OK string, but you shouldn't really be relying on it so much. Go for a Critical Burst combo instead, or even 4PPPP+KT.
In the stage "Home" there are a lot of "stumble stuns", when you hit an enemy into a wall/table/bed/etc. You can continue your combo when they're down, I like to run over and use 1PP.
When you land 8K axe kick, normally you should be seeking to go directly into 7P launch, air throw.
The best/easiest combo for 1PP is 1PP, 9P, air throw, 6PK, 2K (starts the blender).
Check out the combo topic sometime.
How much of the DOA basic system do you know? Baiting a hold for a Hi-Counter throw really helps sometimes.
You're a pretty disrespectful player... ._.
At least, I would try to refrain from taunting mid-match, since to my knowledge you can't cancel a taunt so you'll be left wide open.
Shiranui
Well-Known Member
sorry, don't know what BlendTec is.. you mean her 66T/PPT?
My DoA basics knowledge I fear is quite low.. I just started playing doA and i have the feeling that I'm missing something in the basics.. I made all tutorial, and i know few combos of Rachel, her punches and kicks (i have to improve my critical burst combos... ) but still i can't face good players at all. It's curious but I can win much easier with Kasumi than with Rachel, and I'm reading everywhere that Rachel is OP.. lol
hmm, air throw > 6PK 2K? 2K can be avoid it, right? I use now air throw > 9P 6KP
Disrespectful? Mmm, I don't see why, because of taunt? I love it And yes, it can't be canceled
Thanks, for your answers. I will try to improve.
My DoA basics knowledge I fear is quite low.. I just started playing doA and i have the feeling that I'm missing something in the basics.. I made all tutorial, and i know few combos of Rachel, her punches and kicks (i have to improve my critical burst combos... ) but still i can't face good players at all. It's curious but I can win much easier with Kasumi than with Rachel, and I'm reading everywhere that Rachel is OP.. lol
hmm, air throw > 6PK 2K? 2K can be avoid it, right? I use now air throw > 9P 6KP
Disrespectful? Mmm, I don't see why, because of taunt? I love it
And yes, it can't be canceledThanks, for your answers. I will try to improve.
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Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
It's a meme reference...
OK, let me explain this to you, why people call Rachel OP.
Your goal with Rachel, is to land 2K down attack. Normally, this would be after a knockdown, but Rachel can set up 2K opportunities after using air throw.
Any time when landing air throw, almost always use 6PK, 2K. If the opponent does nothing, side techs, or tries to wakeup kick, you will hit them with the 2K down attack.
When Rachel kicks them back up again, you are at +15 advantage. This means that you should immediately
- 8K, 7P, air throw, which resets the situation
- 4PPP into a Critical Burst > 214P, 9P, air throw, which resets the situation, or bait out a hold then 41236T, 9P, air throw, which resets the situation
- 41236T throw if they block or step. Follow with 9P, air throw, which resets the situation
If you land any of these you land air throw, which means you get to use 6PK, 2K, which means if they get hit by it you do it all over again.
Now- if you do 6PK, 2K, and the opponent techs backwards, 2K will whiff. However, you are still at advantage; you still get to attack.
In this case, immediately
- 6PP, 214P, air throw, or 6PP, stun combo (e.g. 8K, 7P, air throw), or 6PPK, air throw, which resets the situation
- 6KP, 2K, which resets the situation
- 41236T throw if they block or step. Follow with 9P, air throw, which resets the situation
Again, if you land any of these, you land air throw, which means you get to use 6PK, 2K, and start all over again.
Rachel's "OP" power, the one that everyone complains about, is catching opponents in these loops. (a.k.a. "The Blender".) The loop can be escaped, but only if the opponent knows exactly what to do. If they do not, they're completely at your mercy.
If you finish your air throw with anything other than:
- 9P, 2K
- 6PK, 2K
- 3PP, 2K
It means that you give up the guaranteed 2K attempt, and Rachel becomes a normal character again.
tl;dr - If you finish with air throw > 9P, 6KP, Rachel will never be OP like you hear.
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Her "Blender", "loop", "vortex" whatever you want to call it is no different from any other time you have to make a guess in this game. Rachel is guaranteed absolutely nothing after a whiffed 2k. Just like how Gen Fu isn't guaranteed anything after his 214+T. Just attack if you think shes gonna throw or block and punish accordingly if she attacks. I'm glad TN made Rachel the way she is. DoA is the only fighting game that I know of that (up until 5 1.03) you can pressure your opponent with a wake up kick. They caused deep stun, track, and was fast. So fast that you could even bait your opponent to defensive hold and hi counter throw him. That's ridiculous!
Zanx
New Member
Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
Okie-dokie. Long post...
- I see you're really abusing 3PPP. Try and be careful with that... It's all mid punches, and the last P is unsafe. You were getting held a lot on that final punch.
Try playing the stun game with CH 3P or 3PP instead (very deep stuns) and only use that last P if you have to. Better yet, use 3PPP, and then stop doing the last punch to bait out their hold (and then throw punish).
- Tell your TO to turn the camera view to "Pro" instead of "Casual/Cinematic". I mean, unless you like it... Seems distracting to me.
- After you land 2K down attack, you have oodles of advantage. Don't waste it by using PPT; use the blender! (The basics are a few posts above.) 8K or 4PPP or anything really, as long as it's not high! (Everything high crushes in this game...)
- Do not try to space Ein. He controls space much better than you can- he's too fast for the range that he has. Guard and neutral throw punish if possible, or if you need to get in, try run-up guard.
- Check out Rachel's frames sometime. A lot of her guard breaks, like PPP, actually leave you at negative (!)
Try not to attack after unsafe things like 6PPK, 3PPP, 1PP, etc.- it'll only get you counterhit.
- Check out the spacing topic. Try not to whiff if you can- a lot of characters (not just Ein, actually) control space better than you do, so you need to be aware of it.
- If you score a hard wallsplat/full wall combo you are unlikely to get a down attack shortly after. Back off, unless you want to head in and play the wakeup kick game.
- After landing Rachel's neutral throw, if the opponent tech rolls you are at disadvantage. Be cautious.
- I would be really careful about using PPT near walls like you were doing... If you guess wrong on the mixup, you're in a bad position (now your back is to the wall!) If you think they will block when they are near the wall, why don't you try 6T wall throw or 66K?
Anyway, like you said, that's 2-day play; you just need experience. Get your combos right, get your basics right. Know the triangle system like the back of your hand. Play some online (or local casuals if you have that luxury). Put a little time in and you'll be fine.
Looking forward to seeing more from you.