What do you think Pai needs?

[Nuke-Nin]

Her 66H+K needs to groundbounce again like before the patch ; _;

 

[Vincent Rayne]

i can't play Pai online. but i don't think it's just Pai. i think it's just playing in lag. the fraction of a second it takes to react to a move is becoming too crucial. before i didn't see a lot of people doing anything to win (i.E. picking ryu, then picking the temple; or picking hayate or ayane and spamming lows.) i don't like guessing but that's all online has come down to lately. and when ever i do get a 5 bar or even a 4 bar with little to no lag they leave after being beaten once.

oh, and i did my critical burst out of Pai's 3P4 P3P+K P. the last P is supposed to do a good launch off of a critical burst. when i did it once online it barely bounced the person off the ground. i could do one P and that was it. they were on the ground for me. i lost the match because the combo would have ended the round but instead i was forced into that 50-50 wake-up kick game when it shouldn't even had been an issue.

 

[Codemaster92163]

oh, and i did my critical burst out of Pai's 3P4 P3P+K P. the last P is supposed to do a good launch off of a critical burst. when i did it once online it barely bounced the person off the ground. i could do one P and that was it. they were on the ground for me. i lost the match because the combo would have ended the round but instead i was forced into that 50-50 wake-up kick game when it shouldn't even had been an issue.

That punch doesn't hit their back when A.) they're near a wall and Pai's quick dash to the side is impeded by said wall and B.) if you weren't close enough to the opponent for the dash to get around the opponent. I assume it's the second one, as that happens to me on occasion when I don't pay attention to how far away I am when the CB hits. It's not an online thing - just a distance/location thing.

 

[Vincent Rayne]

That punch doesn't hit their back when A.) they're near a wall and Pai's quick dash to the side is impeded by said wall and B.) if you weren't close enough to the opponent for the dash to get around the opponent. I assume it's the second one, as that happens to me on occasion when I don't pay attention to how far away I am when the CB hits. It's not an online thing - just a distance/location thing.

ah. the opponent was near a wall. the my left and i did 9P+K instead of 3P+K. okay. just makin' sure. i'm gonna keep putting out practice, though. thanks for the info.

 

[Project Bokuho]

Here is what I think she needs for buffs:

WS needs to be a pushback ender (while the opponent is airborne)
I just think this would be much better for her.

Less recovery frames for her
The recovery frames make this move way too slow at recovery for a bound move ( is nice and all, but she needs other things for use). It would be nice to actually pull something off after it.

Skip to @ 2:44 to see the move I'm talking about.

Any suggestions about my requests?

 

[Codemaster92163]

I don't use 6H+K as a bound, but rather a very rare launch. It would be awesome if it could bound, or if they'd improve the bound off of BKT H+K (that would be my favorite course of action), but we've all just gotten so used to 46H+K.

That said, when thinking about it more, I think the most important thing she could use (after a tracking tweak) would be a running H+K that acts like 66H+K. Along that note, 66H+K needs it's old recovery, back when BT 2P+K was guaranteed.

As it stands, Pai needs to be up close all the time to win. She doesn't have the greatest spacing game, and while you can make use of it, you'll net only a few points of damage using it. Her running attacks are shit, for lack of a better word, and she could really benefit from one that provides reach and isn't slow as hell (running K, for example).

I still think she needs more tracking, just as Kokoro does, especially when characters like Christie have i14 tracking mids that are part of a string, while Pai get's the rather bad 4K (not that it's bad by itself, but it's risky to use it as an anti stepper).

 

[crapoZK]

I'm not saying I know anything about Pai, but I think that should bound at Full Threshold.

 

[Codemaster92163]

You mean like how P+K grants a bound at max? I don't know - there'd be no reason to use that over 3H+K, just like there's no reason to use the P+K bound over 33P+K.

Not that you couldn't mix it up, but why add (almost) useless utility to a move that won't ever be used in that fashion?

 

[Malfury]

I just wish her moves were more effective in the neutral game. That's basically all. Sometimes I feel her speed is worthless if she can barely stop people from moving.

 

[Codemaster92163]

You know, I really wish they'd remove the launch from so we could use it both as an uppercut stun as well as get the bound from the second in the string (which I've still no idea why they get it that property seeing as how it's a rarely used move that's even less likely to land the second hit instead of the first).

 

[Project Bokuho]

You know, I really wish they'd remove the launch from so we could use it both as an uppercut stun as well as get the bound from the second in the string (which I've still no idea why they get it that property seeing as how it's a rarely used move that's even less likely to land the second hit instead of the first).

I agree. It would be nice to have the second bound in single matches too.

 

[Codemaster92163]

Oh, I don't mean a bound like a :H+K bound, but the second in that string actually functions like using after a CB.

So instead of getting a rather shitty launch from that can only be followed by 's and all that, we could follow up the bounce from with for more damage.

 

[Project Bokuho]

Oh, I don't mean a bound like a :H+K bound, but the second in that string actually functions like using after a CB.

So instead of getting a rather shitty launch from that can only be followed by 's and all that, we could follow up the bounce from with for more damage.

Oh okay.

 

[Codemaster92163]

There's a few changes I'd like to see. Of course, getting all of them at once would make her much too good. These are just suggestions of things they could change (whether it be one or a few) to improve her.

One would be to increase the speed of her low sweep from moves like PPP2K, 6KP2K, etc.. If not that, then make them cause a deep stun instead of a hard knockdown, because as they currently stand, they're terrible.

Change the active frames of HKS for the entirety of the "stepping" duration.

As I said before, remove the launch properties from K so we could get the KK bound.

Carry over HCH status for her 46T and 46T

Increase the stun duration on 6P so we could have alternate reliable hits to follow it up with instead of P (since, as it stands, an opponent that SE on fastest is only in the stun for 11 frames, making it the only move that's guaranteed to connect). Obviously, this severely limits her combo potential after throws like 46T where the only move that hits and causes a stun is 6P.

Increase unholdable frames following her 4K. This is to make sure opponents can't instantly counter out of the CB setup and punish her because they spammed a counter.

Remove the wallsplat from 46H+K. One of the most needed changes for her at the moment.

Make BT 2P guaranteed after 66H+K (very small change)

Increase the speed of 4P+KP so it can hit in a combo without needing the opponent to whiff a counter. Not in all circumstances, of course, but before, her 44P stun was juuuuust long enough to connect into this. I would like to be able to do that again.

Cause MS H+KPP to jail and become a natural combo.

Reduce recovery from 3PK_H

Have 3P/BT 2P track

Increase stun duration on PK (NOT P+K)

Give her more frames for her low punch hold so something can be guaranteed after it. Or, at the very least, shrink the distance she pushes the opponent. The latter would give us a mixup to either throw or attack after the successful counter.

And, if none of the other suggestions work, then revert 66H+K to its former glory. That means its old recovery frames as well as the rebound.

 

[Timasty]

There's a few changes I'd like to see. Of course, getting all of them at once would make her much too good. These are just suggestions of things they could change (whether it be one or a few) to improve her.

One would be to increase the speed of her low sweep from moves like PPP2K, 6KP2K, etc.. If not that, then make them cause a deep stun instead of a hard knockdown, because as they currently stand, they're terrible.

Change the active frames of HKS for the entirety of the "stepping" duration.

As I said before, remove the launch properties from K so we could get the KK bound.

Carry over HCH status for her 46T and 46T

Increase the stun duration on 6P so we could have alternate reliable hits to follow it up with instead of P (since, as it stands, an opponent that SE on fastest is only in the stun for 11 frames, making it the only move that's guaranteed to connect). Obviously, this severely limits her combo potential after throws like 46T where the only move that hits and causes a stun is 6P.

Increase unholdable frames following her 4K. This is to make sure opponents can't instantly counter out of the CB setup and punish her because they spammed a counter.

Remove the wallsplat from 46H+K. One of the most needed changes for her at the moment.

Make BT 2P guaranteed after 66H+K (very small change)

Increase the speed of 4P+KP so it can hit in a combo without needing the opponent to whiff a counter. Not in all circumstances, of course, but before, her 44P stun was juuuuust long enough to connect into this. I would like to be able to do that again.

Cause MS H+KPP to jail and become a natural combo.

Reduce recovery from 3PK_H

Have 3P/BT 2P track

Increase stun duration on PK (NOT P+K)

Give her more frames for her low punch hold so something can be guaranteed after it. Or, at the very least, shrink the distance she pushes the opponent. The latter would give us a mixup to either throw or attack after the successful counter.

And, if none of the other suggestions work, then revert 66H+K to its former glory. That means its old recovery frames as well as the rebound.

I agree with everything. Especially keeping the critical dmg at 125% / 150% after 46T. That grab is pretty terrible.

For me, I'm hoping to see some changes on her 3T. They need to increase the FA by +1. It'll be the same just like her 64T. So you're able to get a guaranteed 9K since that move helps a lot to figure out on how your opponent reacts while being BT + you'll have more options than just a jab after a 3T 6P (3T 9K 64P, 3T 9K 6P, 3T 9K 6K etc.)
Thanks to her 9K, 64P, 6P or 44P after 64T, you're able to keep the critical dmg to 125% (if they strike), so I don't think it's really necessary to buff the 64T move.

What I'm hoping for the most is that they'll change her 4_K to 4K. There are dozens of other moves which work the same. Such as her 4T grab. 4_T is a T, and not a 4T (what it should be). It would help fighting laggy opponents and would make things a lot easier. In fact, it would even help her fighting opponents like Ayane or Lisa with her 6H+K. You can just run up to 'em and press H+K for a pretty safe move.

 

[Timasty]

Oh and I forgot to mention that I'd think it would be really cool if her Meishouho K would act the same way as her 1H+K does. That'd be nasty

 

[Project Bokuho]

They should make 3T and 33T guaranteed after doing P+K (normal hit) just like in VF5FS.

 

[Codemaster92163]

Oh, and I forgot 2 more things, actually.

One would be to make 6P+K high crush on all frames, rather than the few that it does. The other would be to make SS P act exactly like 6P+K, in that you could follow it up with another punch or her HKS stance. The two of these combined would be an extremely welcome change, as she'd finally have a dependable high crush SS move along with a followup.

 

[Project Bokuho]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[Codemaster92163]

Yeah, see how fast the low sweep from PPP2K is? That's how it needs to be in DOA. Plus, the KPK strong would be awesome, since Dbomb told me it used to provide +4 on block. At least I think that was the move he was talking about.