What Do You Think The Best Way to Train Is?

Dave

Well-Known Member
What is the general consensus of the best way to gain more experience? I have done quite a bit of Legend arcade, but I don't believe that is the most practical way of training due to the fact that the AI is just insane. I've been doing a lot of versus with AI, going up about a level each day. Right now I am at 6. I think I like this method better. Is the best way really just going up against other players online? Seems that way, but I get incredibly frustrated when I can't even finish off a combo due to the lag, and the fact that my character will randomly execute moves I'm not trying to do because of it. Any other suggestions?
 

DrDogg

Well-Known Member
Play other players offline and travel to offline tournaments. You're in Cali right? There are scenes in SoCal and NorCal. You have it better than most of the country.

Playing against the computer is not going to get you very far. Playing online is horrid, and has caused almost every "top" player in the community to develop bad habits (as of NEC), but I'd say it's better than playing the AI.
 

Prince Adon

Best in the World!!!
Premium Donor
Despite the lag online is the best way to gain experience from players. You won't gain anything from playing the A.I really since they're "fixed" and don't play like human players. To learn a better extent of what characters are made of and how to fight said character online is your best bet unless you have someone good that you can play offline which aren't the case with a lot of players.

Also things that you learn online it's best to practice it and make sure it works offline using training mode since playing online in those conditions can make a huge difference. Also if you plan on competing offline it's always best to spend a lot of time playing with someone offline, or using training mode so you don't get too caught up in bad online habits/tactics. Spending a lot of time in training mode practicing timing/reactions helps a lot.

Edit: Rather you live in NorCal or SoCal I'm sure you live in an area where you can find players. You should check out the NoCal and SoCal topics in Match Making. Also keep an eye out on the tournament forums. I don't know if you're aware of SoCal Regionals coming up.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
Going up against DOA5's AI definitely won't teach anyone anything. I haven't played against it TOO much but I've never seen it make a wrong guess when it comes to countering. It's inhuman.

I can understand the frustration in lag though, the VF characters probably suffer the most due to some moves' strict timing.

If the player I'm going against has a 1 or 2 bar connection I either pick an easier character or do easier juggles. You gotta bite the bullet.
 

DrDogg

Well-Known Member
If the player I'm going against has a 1 or 2 bar connection I either pick an easier character or do easier juggles. You gotta bite the bullet.

I get more lag in 5-bar connections than I do 1-bar connections. Both are terrible for competitive play, but I find the bar status doesn't seem to impact the amount of lag unless it changes mid-match.
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
If you don't have any experienced local help, check out Emperor Cow's video tutorial series as well as Sorwa--- excuse me, Mr. Wah's quick vid he made about reacting to holds and wake-up attacks. (The posted vid is of the latter.)


Both should at least give you a visual idea of how to play the game, but ultimately, learning how your opponent plays (and not just knowing the character on paper) will help you get better once you've got the fundamentals down. Just keep in mind that even if you do end up playing solid, you're not guaranteed to be invincible. We're all human. We win some, and we lose some. Live to fight another day, and persevere.

NOTE: I should warn you Emperor Cow's tutorial series is unfinished, as 3 of 12 parts have been completed. But here's the existing playlist nonetheless.



 

Tenren

Well-Known Member
What is the general consensus of the best way to gain more experience? I have done quite a bit of Legend arcade, but I don't believe that is the most practical way of training due to the fact that the AI is just insane. I've been doing a lot of versus with AI, going up about a level each day. Right now I am at 6. I think I like this method better. Is the best way really just going up against other players online? Seems that way, but I get incredibly frustrated when I can't even finish off a combo due to the lag, and the fact that my character will randomly execute moves I'm not trying to do because of it. Any other suggestions?
SCR is next week. Even if you dont want to play in the tournament we will have casual before and after.
 

Dave

Well-Known Member
Going up against DOA5's AI definitely won't teach anyone anything. I haven't played against it TOO much but I've never seen it make a wrong guess when it comes to countering. It's inhuman.

I can understand the frustration in lag though, the VF characters probably suffer the most due to some moves' strict timing.

If the player I'm going against has a 1 or 2 bar connection I either pick an easier character or do easier juggles. You gotta bite the bullet.

This times 10000000. I love Sarah to death, but man does she suffer in the lag.

Also, you guys have really given so much advice so far. Thank you all. It's awesome!
 

prototypetom

Active Member
i got spanked so bad earlier.

and then i played some DOA (boom boom) and got beat up by some superior players and loved every second - just wish they were playing loser stays on :p . impossible finding folks on simple match these days to get sustained time playing someone enlightening.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
i got spanked so bad earlier.

and then i played some DOA (boom boom) and got beat up by some superior players and loved every second - just wish they were playing loser stays on :p . impossible finding folks on simple match these days to get sustained time playing someone enlightening.

Try having smaller (3 to 4 player) sessions, either with people on your friendlist or randoms. Although, to be honest, it's better playing people you know to ensure random folk with 1-2 bar connections don't ruin your session.
 

Tones

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Watch people play, screw around online, and read these forums. You'll get new ideas to take into the lab. Figure it out. Drill it. Then employ it against the AI (this is were Team Battle was good because the AI varies) and online. Tweak, and figure out if it's worth it. Employ it in offline casuals for some final tweaking, finalizing how often is should be used, and its setups.

Too much online is bad for my offline play. There's no benefits in playing online for more than 10-15 minutes at a time. Unless I'm playing random and dicking around, beyond that 15 minutes I get mothballs in my mouth.

I'm lucky enough to have a few aussie players who are willing to play for hours upon hours offline with me.
 

Sly Bass

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
I'm lucky enough to have a few aussie players who are willing to play for hours upon hours offline with me.
You sir, are very lucky. Zero of my RL friends play this game, or any fighter for that matter. The few that did venture into the genre I have scared away, and I'm not even that awesome.
 

tnzk

Member
Justin Wong pretty much nailed it in his blogs. If you are keen on playing absolutely competitively, this is how it's done:

1) Hit the Training Room; Never Give Up Using It.
2) Bring your conditioned skills to real matches (offline and online, A.I or human, just bring it)
3) Play in environments outside of your comfort zone
4) Analyze your successes and failures post-game (preferably with replays)

None of this is actually new. In fact, it's pretty much applicable to any skill you want to learn in life.

Play other players offline and travel to offline tournaments. You're in Cali right? There are scenes in SoCal and NorCal. You have it better than most of the country.

Playing against the computer is not going to get you very far. Playing online is horrid, and has caused almost every "top" player in the community to develop bad habits (as of NEC), but I'd say it's better than playing the AI.

Lemme just say that I agree that offline is the most optimum way to improve, and going to tournaments is the fastest way to become pro (I personally once spent five hours getting bodied in a Street Fighter casuals session, and have since improved drastically). However, I've noticed across forums that some people take it too far, as if it's offline or nothing, even so much as simply upping your game. So I'm going to make a small apology for playing against A.I and playing online.

I'd say playing against the computer can have some benefits. It's obviously inhuman, and it's obviously too calculated. However, if you've ever played chess against an A.I (and I mean the proper stuff, not that derp A.I you get with your computer's stock chess), it'll put the hurt in every one of your flawed moves, ending up in a very frustrating loss most of the time (you have to use cheap tactics to win against it, like any fighting game).

Likewise, good fighting game A.I should help you learn to cover some flaws, even if it's something as simple as the basic opening moves. You might, for example, always open with what you perceive to be at least great blockstrings/pressure, only for the A.I to know exactly which move to counter strike/hold with. I find the A.I helps with getting a feel for the frames on your move set. Like chess though, best to not rely on developing actual strategy with the A.I

Online also can be good to an extent, and I'll use another analogy: any one of you guys can learn to play drums on the cheap right now. Just buy a pair of drum sticks, or find wooden chop sticks, grab old telephone books, and arrange them like a kit. Now start practicing real drum techniques. That's how I learned when I could not afford a drum kit. Yes, you may develop some bad habits, but you also gain some very good habits. Hell, play on nothing but phone directories for two years with drum sticks, and it'll only take 10 minutes for you to start playing on real drums like a pro even if you've never touched a kit before.

Even the best players started from these humble roots, and even continue in some respects: Justin Wong in his Step Up Your Game column described how he initially played against the computer on the hardest difficulty to improve himself, and now he's got a career in professional gaming. Perfect Legend apparently plays Mortal Kombat on a laggy connection at home, which hasn't stopped him from winning Evo twice in a row.

Essentially, train in whatever way you can, being cautious of how it might evolve your game. But remember to stop training every now and then and actually play the game like it should be played: offline against other players.
 

Dravidian

Active Member
Record/Replay function in training mode.
yeah, I suppose. But what I mean is that when ever I try to hold on reaction I usually either block or get hit and the hold comes out late(the weird buffer which is getting fixed in the patch will prevent my hold from coming out late). Maybe I'm thinking too much when I'm practicing. My holds just arent reflexive yet. I see a non walking animation, then try to figure out it's height, and then try to hold. Sure it's happening pretty quick, but it's definitely not a reflex yet I guess I'll just grind it out in training.
Learn the character and use the Yomi yourself.
I can use yomi (learning an opponent isnt that hard), but I'd rather rely on my reactions like I do when blocking. It just makes me feel safer I guess. In either case I def need more experience...though learning hoe to play all characters to the best of their abilities doesnt sound very efficient -_-

I thank both of you for your replies
 
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