"You are tearing me apart, Lisa!" The Lisa Strategy thread

[ailingeternity]

In 4 nothing was guaranteed from it because of slow escaping. In DOA5 1k still trips stuns, just not on close hit and on counter.

I'm going to break down how I use 1k...

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Close/Knock down​

Knock down. Free cancel and follow up with 1k. If they tech you have set up the follow up 2k, continue tool. If they tech don't force get up +15/16.​

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Far​

On hit, follow up 1k to force knock down or continue as following. Trip stun (counter/hi counter) +8-15, Normal hit +5-10. Follow up with dash OH, copy tool, start new tool, or dash back and play it safe. Gamble with combo throw follow up.​

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Just whiff range​

Use to bait interrupts, if both hits whiff follow up with 2k. See above. Don't follow up if they successfully low crush (I say successfully because often her big feet hits them during the crush).​

Tools are little games you play with her. Examples are working for CB, screwing around with carrera, working the frame advantage (ppp, 6k+f), stun then PB, jab throw.

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That is why it's better. This is also why I dislike people saying this, this and this that needs changing. It's inversed logic...

See how dimensional it is compared to if it just knocked down or trip stunned? I'm against a change of the 1k only trip stunning and 2k follow up to knocked down because it would give them an opportunity to counter.

In DOA4 no isn't guaranteed, but even after slow escape Lisa has to catch defending players. will still catch anyone trying to backdash or fuzzy guard, it's a true 50/50.

Back to DOA5, been experimenting a lot with in sparring. after forced tech doesn't seem to really help me much, especially since the will whiff, making the follow-up spottable, especially since it's the only follow-up worth using. The best thing I've found doing is actually, running in after forced tech with and going for which can also catch steppers or switch it up with which will hit anyone trying to crush the former for a deep stun that's safe. As a KD it would be much better if it had a guaranteed follow-up (ideally another () so you could initiate this kind of pressure since teching when you have space behind you shuts down so much of Lisa's offensive options. As a trip stun, Bat pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I have no objection to it having certain properties at different ranges, but at whatever range you use it, there's little to work with that can really frighten the opposition, I just have an issue with the poor damage potential and that fact it makes Lisa work harder to put them in a sticky situation. A slow low such as this needs to grant better opportunities for pressure. As for being worried about being held, I don't need to elaborate on her hold punishing, it's amongst the best in the game, this is why I like the trip stun so much in DOA4 and why having 50/50's are crucial to Lisa's game.

 

[Gruff757]

Yo has anyone tried using lisa's 2K as a force tech?​

-gonna post a video here later when i get home-

I was in the lab practicing combos and stuff and accidentally used her 2K as the opoonent hit the ground from a whiffed move(that turned into 2K lol).

iirc it leaves her at +22 if she force techs them

is there anyway we can work off of this?

Edit: Nevermind i thought it force teched.....fuck X_X

 

[Batcommander]

No worries, gruff

Lisa, as far as i know, doesn't really have any practical force tech stuff. I think PP2k can force tech if used in a juggle, but you only get like +1 and it leaves you quite a distance. Not worth the damage sacrifice at all. It would be nice if 6PPP or KK6K could cause tech shenanigans during juggles, but alas. (Speaking of KK, just found out it gives a tremendous amount of stun )

I did find out that, if you hit the opponent at critical threshold with 6K, and any of its variations (2KPK, 4PK), you will get a facedown knockdown that will leave you at around +44 or something like that. You can then force them up with PK for +16, followed by 66 OH or whatever you want afterwards. If they do start tech rolling, you STILL get +15. So this is a pseudo force tech, but it can be practical for people that want to keep pressure. Additionally, 6K as a finisher is faster than any of your other launchers, they may not see it coming.

Now, you COULD hit the opponent on the ground with 9K; however, if they tech, you are at -18, so i don't think it's worth the risk.

edit: just wanted to add using 1PK and 4K at critical threshold will also give similar benefits; you can use 6FK to force them up for +14-15, and if they tech, you get +24.

 

[Gruff757]

Yeah hopefully we can find some stellar bs for Lisa lol

I'm still learning about frame advantage and such, so I am coming up with small things and trying to confirm what is is even semi useful or what.

 

[Tones]

She does have force get ups...
6k+f 6k+f
1k(2k) 1k (only works if they don't tech roll)

 

[Batcommander]

Forgot about 6FK on its own. Guess it goes to show how much i personally use it haha.

Additionally, use PK to force them up, you get more advantage and it has the same frames as 6FK.

 

[Gruff757]

so uh......does Don Volcan () only catch low punches?

 

[Tones]

snip

So what are her 50/50s now then.

 

[Tones]

Stella bs? Lisa is a really solid characters. She doesn't have the speed but she is solid everywhere else. She also has plenty of decent 14/15 frame attacks. Stun options with mad potential damage, frame advantage, force get ups, cross over attacks, a mad back dash, juicy titties etc

 

[Batcommander]

juicy titties etc

lol

so uh......does Don Volcan () only catch low punches?

i haven't tested it extensively, but since it's a low oh, it should catch anything crouching as long as the move is in start up or recovery, but not while it's active.

So found something today while in training. As we all know, can land a guaranteed for 50 damage. However, it also comes with good oki options too, something that (which is the same speed and does the same damage), doesn't do.

After landing the , if your opponent techs, you get +8-10 to work with. If they don't tech, you can go straight into carrera slide and force them up for +5. Unfortunately, the latter option must be input before the opponent hits the floor, so if they DO end up teching, you'll end up in negative. It does require you to make a read on your opponent.

You can also just do a low attack () for an additional 12 damage if you don't want to tech them with Carrera slide.

In closing, i think it's much better to punish with than simply for the oki options afterwards.

Additionally, i just noticed that deja vu has really good range. It's almost as good as .

 

[Gruff757]

lol


i haven't tested it extensively, but since it's a low oh, it should catch anything crouching as long as the move is in start up or recovery, but not while it's active.

So found something today while in training. As we all know, can land a guaranteed for 50 damage. However, it also comes with good oki options too, something that (which is the same speed and does the same damage), doesn't do.

After landing the , if your opponent techs, you get +8-10 to work with. If they don't tech, you can go straight into carrera slide and force them up for +5. Unfortunately, the latter option must be input before the opponent hits the floor, so if they DO end up teching, you'll end up in negative. It does require you to make a read on your opponent.

You can also just do a low attack () for an additional 12 damage if you don't want to tech them with Carrera slide.

In closing, i think it's much better to punish with than simply for the oki options afterwards.

Additionally, i just noticed that deja vu has really good range. It's almost as good as .

Yeah I know it should catch anything low but for some reason i cant catch low kicks, only punches.....how exactly do ohs work anyway? it always seems like hit or miss for me

also + a wall = dat sexy shit

 

[Batcommander]

Yeah I know it should catch anything low but for some reason i cant catch low kicks, only punches.....how exactly do ohs work anyway? it always seems like hit or miss for me

also + a wall = dat sexy shit

edited:

i just copy/pasted this from the wiki:
Also known as the catch throw/catch grab. A Offensive Hold acts as a Throw with Offensive holds properties meaning it beats out attacks, and defensive holds, but its beaten by all Throws. AKA the catch throw/catch grab.

 

[Gruff757]

Okay I get that, but like most of the time I get hit out of the oh. Annoying lol. Is there a certain way they are meant to be used?

 

[Batcommander]

Okay I get that, but like most of the time I get hit out of the oh. Annoying lol. Is there a certain way they are meant to be used?

hmm, they could be hitting you before the OH actually comes out. What low kicks are you having trouble with, specifically?

 

[Gruff757]

hmm, they could be hitting you before the OH actually comes out. What low kicks are you having trouble with, specifically?

usually wake up kicks and i couldnt catch low kicks period while in the lab, only low punches for some reason could be caught without any problem whatsoever. i tried it on ayane kasumi and jann lee so far, i even timed it to where i would throw out my oh a few frames before they do their low kicks. got stuffed everytime

Edit: Okay I guess it's just wakeup lows that cant be caught which sucks....

 

[Batcommander]

usually wake up kicks and i couldnt catch low kicks period while in the lab, only low punches for some reason could be caught without any problem whatsoever. i tried it on ayane kasumi and jann lee so far, i even timed it to where i would throw out my oh a few frames before they do their low kicks. got stuffed everytime

Edit: Okay I guess it's just wakeup lows that cant be caught which sucks....

if you think someone is going to do a low wakeup kick, use 9K and get a free 100+ damage

 

[Tones]

Another force get up if they don't tech roll, 6k 6k 1k .

God damn, she's got multiple blenders, good counter damage, awesome throw damage, good attack damage, lots of OHs, frame advantages, nice crushes and is plenty evasive. She is pretty unsafe and sort of slow but she makes up for that with her all her good 14-16 frame attack strings and potential throw damage.

 

[Gruff757]

So we can all finally agree that they didnt leave Lisa completely out in the cold this time around?

 

[Batcommander]

So we can all finally agree that they didnt leave Lisa completely out in the cold this time around?

I think people look at her lack of guaranteed damage (like Kokoro or jann Lee) and her speed and write her off too easily. I admit i too thought the same during the first few weeks the game was out, til i got more time in the lab with her. If you look at her frame data, you see all the huge numbers, and it's a turnoff especially if you come from something like VF (like me haha). But that stuff doesn't matter as much in this game since you can free cancel, delay, and mixup basically everything.


Like Tones said, she's got a lot of good stuff going for her. I will also add that she has tons of tracking moves unlike most characters, 7 frame throw punishes, can circumvent wakeup kicks easily, has a low attack that knocks down on normal hit (a luxury in this game), and can keep people out easily too. Even her rope attacks are improved from DOA4.

If you play defensive Lisa, you can make people work their asses off depending on the character (mila, leifang, and genfu are good examples). She isn't as throw punishable on block as some of the other characters like Kasumi or Hayate either; her most practical attacks are mostly under -10 on block.

Even without CB, she can still easily land 100+ damage from a single combo.

I am curious to see how she will turn out in the patch, since most people are under the impression that she sucks; so i wonder what TN will do. As long she receives no nerfs, she will still be in a good place, unless some major change to the game system dictates otherwise.

 

[Gruff757]

Yeeeaahhhhh better not touch her with the nerf paddle TN lol

I've been messing around with 9P a bit and its pretty effective from full screen (if they arent expecting it). I've gone about using it to transition into BT and Back Dash back to Normal Stance and mixing in some 8P for shenanigans.

It looks weird to do but it helps open up some attack/mixup options by keeping you mobile which i feel is how lisa keeps up momentum, by constantly being in motion and transitioning from different stances and trying to incorporate her 9P into some of those mobile options.

I believe Tones mentioned something about Lisa getting a floored OH opportunity if she gets hit out of the 9P the right way?