Do you want a tournament scene?

[Rikuto]

Yeah Hayabusa has always been a troll character. Series tradition he gets everything, while the plebs starve over his left overs.

Because of how Xfactor guard cancels anything you do becomes punishable and can guarantee death.

I don't play marvel really, but doesn't it seem like the correct solution to this problem is to save X-factor so you can use it at the same time as your opponent and wait things out defensively?

Seems like it'd reset the situation, at least.

 

[DR2K]

I don't play marvel really, but doesn't it seem like the correct solution to this problem is to save X-factor so you can use it at the same time as your opponent and wait things out defensively?

Seems like it'd reset the situation, at least.

Yeah, but sometimes you need it to guarantee a kill. It's mostly used as a last resort thing though, which makes the end of the match as random as a coin flip.

 

[CyberEvil]

Lot of emo-ness up in here. I want a good tournament scene, but at the moment that's up in the air. We have no clue how this game will turn out. I'll still be going to tournaments regardless on how this turns out, with Evo being my next one, but it'd be nice to go for a Dead or Alive game again.

Even though I can't stand 90% of the existing fan base, I'd still show up to a big enough DoA tournament. I'm very much in the minority, though, if history is anything to go by.

EDIT: Just to add my two cents on the Marvel talk because I do play it reasonably well, X-factor is a terrible mechanic. It works in that game because of how random and crazy the whole thing is, but it's a comeback mechanic and a crazy one. In the SF4 series, the comeback mechanic is a one-shot hail mary oftentimes with an Ultra. You use it randomly and whiff, you're done. SFxT has one that powers you way the hell up but offs you after about eight seconds. Marvel? If you're almost done, you have 30 seconds of massively buffed parameters, with some characters moving to nigh-untouchable levels.

That is not a good way to do things, in my opinion. You shouldn't have to be in the upper echelons of players to deal with a character's sudden ridiculous burst of speed, or have to worry that you suddenly are in the very real situation where you can be quickly chipped to death off of an easy hit confirm or block string.

As for the idea of X-factor being used when your opponent uses it, that's not really viable. It negates chip damage but does nothing to counter some of the other things. X-factor buffs each character differently.

Really, all DoA needs to become competitive is situations (wall splats and stuns, mostly) where you can't hold. That's it. It'd be nice to do something about the mostly invincible wake-up kicks, too.

 

[d3v]

People shouldn't be surprised at X-Factor. This is Neo_G Ishizawa we're talking about after all. The same guy who gave us V-ISM infinites in A3 and A-Groove shenanigans in CvS2.

 

[x Sypher x]

People shouldn't be surprised at X-Factor. This is Neo_G Ishizawa we're talking about after all. The same guy who gave us V-ISM infinites in A3 and A-Groove shenanigans in CvS2.

I've seen some crazy shit with V-ISM, it's fucking ridiculous lol.

 

[DriftSlave]

It's largely why people dismissed SFA3....and revert back to Alpha2. In the end, you don't see much play out of the alpha games now and days....but you do see CVS2 get love from time to time(souttown having old man games featuring CVS2 and 3rd strike).

 

[Gill Hustle]

I don't play marvel really, but doesn't it seem like the correct solution to this problem is to save X-factor so you can use it at the same time as your opponent and wait things out defensively?

Seems like it'd reset the situation, at least.

For the most yes. But there are ways the second person can be countered.

For instance the person who X-Factor first would have to committed to a multi hit move so the Guy did it second would be caught on his recovery.

X-Factor can be " Brokenley Delicious " though.

The thing that I enjoy about Marvel, it's system is built around finding hidden technology that can just be abused . . ." straight outta a comic book! "

 

[d3v]

It's largely why people dismissed SFA3....and revert back to Alpha2. In the end, you don't see much play out of the alpha games now and days....but you do see CVS2 get love from time to time(souttown having old man games featuring CVS2 and 3rd strike).

Actually, A3 got played longer at tournaments than A2, mostly because Japan didn't like A2 but loved A3. And in any case, A2 also had Valle-CCs which required even less execution.

 

[DrDogg]

On the opposite end of the spectrum does VF have a tournament scene outside JP? Would making DOA5 the "perfect" fighter give it a bigger tournament scene?

How many times have VF been at Evo? How many times has DOA been at Evo? What were the turnouts? VF5 is at Evo 2012 with a $15k pot and the game isn't even out yet.

Putting all of that aside, VF doesn't get released in the US on a regular basis. It would likely have more of a tournament scene here if we had gotten the last few versions of the game, or if the PS3 version had online play, or was at least identical to the 360 version.

Putting even that aside... VF has a tournament scene. DOA does not. It doesn't matter where that scene is. Tekken is MASSIVE everywhere except the US. Do you want to compare Tekken's tournament scene to DOA as well?

 

[Rikuto]

Remember how proud the DOA community was when they managed to match Tekken numbers at Evo East in 2006 by basically summoning 90% of the entire country's player base?

 

[Keylay]

Marvel is a hard game to balance. When you lose a character, you're at a disadvantage. You have less health, don't have an assist that can help with mixups, more damaging combos, safe ways to get in, etc.. I can see why they added X-factor but I don't think it works too well.

 

[DriftSlave]

Actually, A3 got played longer at tournaments than A2, mostly because Japan didn't like A2 but loved A3. And in any case, A2 also had Valle-CCs which required even less execution.

I didn't say it didn't I was just stating that after the V-ism shenanigans people eventually dropped Alpha 3 like a bad habit. It's not like it isn't still played but not widely played as say CVS2 or 3rd Strike.....personally I like Alpha 3 as it has personal favorites that only appeared in said game...>_> yeah i dig those Cammy clones.

But on topic, Do you think creating a 24 hour stream for DOA5 will help create interest in the game?

Edit: Apparently DOA5 is up for pre-order

 

[Berzerk!]

Holds in stun are highly pertinent to people's perceptions on whether the attacker gets to maintain advantage.

I do think making holds unusable during critical stuns (not ALL stuns/in hit) is a good measure, but it's not the ONLY measure.

It's also worth pointing out that countering in stun does not guarantee the combo stops. D3V made a good point about this stopping momentum, but counter does not mean that. That's a misconception; if the defender attempts to counter, they are not guaranteed to get the right counter; and the smart attacker knows this.

They know that if their opponent attempts to counter, there's an opportunity to punish them and make an even bigger combo or damaging punish.

This also ignores the fact that the game has other very flashy ways to get big, guaranteed damage - specifically the launchers, but also now the wall hits.

I would agree that getting the hold-stun balance right is important, the whole game system has to be considered when you look at whether people will enjoy playing it competitively.

 

[Berzerk!]

Also, I'd have to say if the argument against DOA is there's too much guessing, Marvel is a great example of a game that is full of guessing - and I'd say the kind of guesses in Marvel are far more annoying to deal with because a wrong guess means you have to sit there for 20-30 seconds while the other guy dials you to death like watching a cut scene.

It hasn't seemed to have hurt Marvel as a spectator game and that's another element that's somewhat new in the modern day of fighters, where the viewing audience is so different now and that has an effect on whether a competitive scene is considered viable.

DOA certainly is fun to watch, so long as we have good players forming rivalries and the fact is, we had that in DOA4 and DOA5 will most certainly be a better game.

 

[Allan Paris]

So what would VF need to do then?

I don't know I don't play that game, competitively. Going by the sound of it, the game is in a better light than the game inspired by it.

 

[d3v]

I didn't say it didn't I was just stating that after the V-ism shenanigans people eventually dropped Alpha 3 like a bad habit. It's not like it isn't still played but not widely played as say CVS2 or 3rd Strike.....personally I like Alpha 3 as it has personal favorites that only appeared in said game...>_> yeah i dig those Cammy clones.

Not from what I recall. V-ism infinites were being used almost from the start, and it was a tournament regular up until CvS2 took its place and A-Groove shenanigans ("ShoShoSho", "Painting the Fences") took over. Heck, Japan played it even longer.

But on topic, Do you think creating a 24 hour stream for DOA5 will help create interest in the game?

Maybe, but it all depends on how it plays.

Also, I'd have to say if the argument against DOA is there's too much guessing, Marvel is a great example of a game that is full of guessing - and I'd say the kind of guesses in Marvel are far more annoying to deal with because a wrong guess means you have to sit there for 20-30 seconds while the other guy dials you to death like watching a cut scene.

Because for the most part, the guessing happens outside of combos. And the part that does happen in combos (resets) isn't arbitrarily forced and the offensive rewards for guessing right are greater.

 

[Tenren]

comparing VF to DOA is like Soccer to american football. VF the world loves it. DOA the majority of the competitive players are in the USA. The only other fighting that comes close to this is MK. Yet MK still has a scene. Given how the game turns out if the community doesn't support it why would anyone else. Smash brawl sucked ass. Yet people still play the shit out of it. Hell last year we ran a SSBB tourney and had 45 people reg for it. I have a feeling that even if holds out of stuns were fixed, we just find something else to bitch about and not play it.

 

[d3v]

Getting holds out of stuns fixed means that the community can get help from the rest of the FGC. As I believe Rikuto has mentioned more than once, doing so is an important key to growing this community (and it's something the SC community is already doing).

 

[DriftSlave]

Im sure TN got more then enough feedback about getting rid of holds in stuns....if they are still present in the E3 build...something didn't stick but I it should be noted that there is still time to fix that if they are still present in the E3 build. Specking of which who is actually going to E3?

 

[Tenren]

I agree but the issue I've seen over the years with the DOA community is. There is always some issue that splits every one. If we cant even support our own game, how can we hope for the FGC to do it?