Also, I'd have to say if the argument against DOA is there's too much guessing, Marvel is a great example of a game that is full of guessing - and I'd say the kind of guesses in Marvel are far more annoying to deal with because a wrong guess means you have to sit there for 20-30 seconds while the other guy dials you to death like watching a cut scene.
There's a difference though. In Marvel, the offensive player is the one forcing the guess, not the defensive player. At best, the defensive player can call an assist and hope it has enough invincibility frames to stop the offensive player. But that boils down to match-up knowledge more than a guess.
Also, when the defensive player guesses wrong, that's it. He doesn't get another guess during that exchange unless the offensive player messes up, or goes for a reset. Once again, the offensive player is in control.
Im sure TN got more then enough feedback about getting rid of holds in stuns....if they are still present in the E3 build...something didn't stick
but I it should be noted that there is still time to fix that if they are still present in the E3 build. Specking of which who is actually going to E3?
Keep in mind the E3 build is roughly based off of code from early April (maybe even earlier). That's not much time to get player feedback.
Also, I will be at E3. Expect big things...
I agree but the issue I've seen over the years with the DOA community is. There is always some issue that splits every one. If we cant even support our own game, how can we hope for the FGC to do it?
Look at where the split is coming from. It started as competitive vs. casual back in DOA2U. The competitive players said online was terrible, while the casuals thought it was great. Then it evolved into the people who play fighters other than DOA at a competitive level, compared to the people who only play DOA at a competitive level. This split will not last long.
If DOA5 isn't up to snuff, the competitive players who are good at other fighters will likely move on to VF, TTT2, or whatever else. That will leave only the few DOA-exclusive players to have their 15-man tournaments. So there won't be a split.
VF5 on 360 was out in October 2007. One year and a half after DOA4.
But the PS3 version was out shortly after DOA4. While the PS3 and 360 ports are based on two different arcade versions, it was still VF5 and more of a port than a new release. Semantics...
What about starting a clear thread and poll around this particular item and see what people think?
1 - Holds should not work while in any stun
2 - Holds should work except in critical stuns
3 - Holds in Stun are ok, just make them higher risk and punishable
4 - Holds all the time! Whee!
The problem is that there are a good number of people here who don't understand what needs to happen to make DOA more accepted by the FGC at large. For example, Emperor_Cow saying he thinks stuns/holds are fine in the demo. I think a vast majority of the people here can agree that the demo is not enough of a step forward.
There are multiple ways to correct the major problems. They don't all revolve around removing holds from stun. You can add launchers that ignore holds during a stun. You can add attacks that put a stunned (or neutral) opponent into a unique stun (maybe limbo) that removes their ability to counter, but limits the number of attacks during stun.
Or you can add all of this giving you a pretty robust system, while still keeping some of the guessing. I put you in a stun, then my options are:
1. Extend the stun, but risk getting countered.
2. Use a launcher that ignores counters completely.
3. Use an attack that places you in a stun that you can't counter out of, but limits the potential damage.
4. Wait for the counter and attempt to throw punish.
Smart players would likely use option 2 or 3. Casuals can still revert to option 1 or 4. DOA takes enough of a step forward to appeal to at least some of the greater FGC. Everyone wins.
