The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[Brute]

Ryu's gap-closing isn't as great as some give it credit for. His best safe gap-closer is 4P+K/ongyoin 6P, but it is a high (crushable) and like most of his options, can be side-stepped. His teleports are the same old business, and esp. someone with Pai's speed really doesn't have to worry about them. His best spacing techniques are really baits, such as 7P->Shoho but the efficiency of these is greatly reduced with characters who have good lurch or speed (Pai in the latter). Free-cancel mix-ups simply don't work with Ryu's speed as Pai can start her next attack after Ryu and still beat him out. Similarly, many of his strings can simply be interrupted. Certain frame advantage moves are similar. For example, with his 3H+K or 214P, even on block Pai will still be tied for speed with his fastest mid. While Hayabusa is not slower than Bayman, compared to Pai his speed is still a large obstacle because you'll always be at a disadvantage in neutral (crushing doesn't work because Pai's 11F mid will beat out pretty much everything). Hayabusa's range techniques can be easily circumvented by side-stepping or simply intercepting them with superior speed, and that's assuming you can make distance to begin with.
In the end, it really boils down to what I was talking about earlier with Bayman. In 90% of situations against Pai, there is no favored course of action because her options will consistently beat out Ryu's. He must guess right. Exactly right. Granted with the Izunas he does get good damage off of a proper guess, but I feel like if you're relying that much on "blind" (I understand there's more to it than that, but it can feel that way given how many of Ryu's options can be beat-out by Pai's) guessing, it's really not a 50/50 scenario.

I still am at wits end that good players can't hold his guard breaks on reaction though.

1KP is easy to hold, ditto 4P+K & ongyoin PPP
6KP can honestly be intercepted or held
3H+K... yeah...
4PK is really the big useful one, and is really more of a "hold in anticipation not reaction"-type thing. But obviously he's losing that in 5U

 

[Cla]

Wait a second... so this thread was made the day before DOA5 even came out... but the DOA5U tier thread gets locked because 3 weeks isn't long enough for us to know anything? Nevermind the fact that talking about it IS the way for us to gain enough knowledge to achieve "accurate discussion", but the sudden change in standards is concerning at the least. Especially considering that this very thread here already proved that this community is capable of civil tier discussion early in the game's life cycle. I think it's insulting to your community to not have faith in them.

 

[MasterHavik]

Wait a second... so this thread was made the day before DOA5 even came out... but the DOA5U tier thread gets locked because 3 weeks isn't long enough for us to know anything? Nevermind the fact that talking about it IS the way for us to gain enough knowledge to achieve "accurate discussion", but the sudden change in standards is concerning at the least. Especially considering that this very thread here already proved that this community is capable of civil tier discussion early in the game's life cycle. I think it's insulting to your community to not have faith in them.

That's because everyone is in bitch mode and the phase,"Shut up get better" is becoming popular. Also this game is very different to vanilla so making a new tier list is suicide when we're still learning all the system changes. Hell most characters doesn't even have a list of changes up besides a few. why are people so fucking quick to make tier lists? Seriously play the fucking game and get better before you start saying like," Yo Eliot is godlike and Rachel is ASS."

 

[Awesmic]

That's because everyone is in bitch mode and the phase,"Shut up get better" is becoming popular. Also this game is very different to vanilla so making a new tier list is suicide when we're still learning all the system changes. Hell most characters doesn't even have a list of changes up besides a few. why are people so fucking quick to make tier lists? Seriously play the fucking game and get better before you start saying like," Yo Eliot is godlike and Rachel is ASS."

I got a tier list:

Toughest opponent Tier: Everyone
Rigged to Blow due to Unfamiliarity Tier: Rig
Still Learning Tier: Me

And you're dad-gummed right I'm gonna say "everyone is godlike and I am ass", 'cause that's the greatest motivator to get better... or so they say.

 

[MasterHavik]

LOL Awesmic being Awesmic.

 

[Crext]

Wait a second... so this thread was made the day before DOA5 even came out... but the DOA5U tier thread gets locked because 3 weeks isn't long enough for us to know anything?

Ye, I hear you. I for one would want to start getting a tier list in development, but at the same timer UNDERLINING that it is very inaccurate.

And ye, the game is very much in a state of learning the ropes. I for one managed to beat 50ish win streak people with a 30 fights background Kokoro (win procent on 80% or so, so people really hasn't figured her out yet). On the Christie I beat higher tiers with 6P spam and throws, with some casual low kicks. You simply don't see the crushes, punish and baiting taking effect yet. Personally I have started to neglect some character (see avatar) as I've learned "enough" to know what I shouldn't do and the limits, though that may be because I simply doesn't know the setup well enough, which again may change my opinion at a later stage. At the same time I have not learned to hold certain new basics like Kasumi's punch of half map reach poke (was that mid or high punch?), on a stable basis (I just haven't bothered). I'm playing a new character every day, win or lose, and next up I foresee either Jacky or Momiji which I KNOW people hasn't adjusted to yet.

So ye, in conclusion we still has a lot to learn, but I believe we could start "speculating" and maybe disregard (reset completely) initial speculative approaches at some stage. I believe this is less damaging than not doing so, on the basis that I've referenced new people to this tier list, because of a lacking alternative when it comes to their questions about match ups. No person has a complete coverage at this stage, and therefor it is hard to help newcomers or wonders in general with these questions if we don't put our heads together for it.
We might also just view it as an estimate, because even if it may not be as accurate as in 2-3 months from now, it will probably not be completely off the bat either.

 

[Dr.Bhup]

So yeah, hey everybody!

I'm new to DOA. Long time Tekken player though. Grew tired of Tekken and just tried out the free version of DOA (core edition) and fell in love with the game and it's mechanics. So I'm gonna seriously be maining Sarah with either Ayane or Lei Fang as secondary.

1. Just wondering about the character-tweaks they made from DOA5 --> DOA5U. Most of the info on the forums are about DOA5. How much of that has changed to the Unlimited version?

2. Does tiers even matter in this game?
3. Is the tier list changed by much? Is it to early to tell? I've been told that Rachel has some nasty setups that are about to get patched.

Also, I just saw the 12 tutorial videos by Emperor Cow. Damn, they were good! So professionally made! That guy must have used much time and effort to do that service to the community. Those were great, I learned quite a lot.

But still, what is the main gameplan in DOA? Like in Tekken it's all about spacing and punishing unsafe moves and/or mixing up the opponent with high/mid/low attacks and try to get a launcher so you can do half-life combos. And Tekken has loads of okigame, wall-game, resets and whatnot.

4. So my last question is; what is the main gameplan in DOA? Get critical stuns and launch opponent?

 

[Brute]

Welcome, Bhup.

1. Just wondering about the character-tweaks they made from DOA5 --> DOA5U. Most of the info on the forums are about DOA5. How much of that has changed to the Unlimited version?

Varies by character, but there's no official "changelogs." I can tell you almost all of Hayabusa's changes, but that's about it. If you want info on a particular character, you'll have to ask a player who is knowledgeable on them specifically.

2. Does tiers even matter in this game

Yes. But, it's too early for there to be an established tier list already. That said, if you ask around, you'll get some pretty consistent placements for certain characters based on anecdotal experiences in the community.

3. Is the tier list changed by much? Is it to early to tell? I've been told that Rachel has some nasty setups that are about to get patched.

Yes, it has changed since vanilla (though vanilla never had a solid tier list that was widely accepted in the community anyway).
There is no official word on any future patches or gameplay tweaks at this time.

4. So my last question is; what is the main gameplan in DOA?

There are several approaches. You can dedicate to one, but it's best to try and master all of them. Note that certain methods will be far more/less effective with certain characters. Here are a few examples of some different approaches you can take:
1) Stun-launch: Get in with a fast (preferably evasive) move to initiate a stun or CH launch, then perform a mini-juggle
2) Poke-stun: Get opponent in stun and use mix-ups between hit-levels to avoid holds until you reach a CB for maximum juggle
3) Spacing: Space yourself and bait a whiff with zoning or crushes, then follow it-up with your preferred punishment.
4) Punishment: Wait until your opponent whiffs or throws out an unsafe string and throw punish or strike them.
5) HiC Throw baits: Put your opponent in stun and poke them in hopes they will try to break free before a CB by using holds. Then, throw them for a HiC throw which nets 150% base throw damage.
6) Holds: Anticipate your opponent and try to hold their next strike. Timed right, certain holds will net you over 120 guaranteed damage.
7) Environment: Push your opponent into a wall, dangerzone, corner or environmental hazard and apply continual pressure for hefty damage.

 

[Dr.Bhup]

Wow, that was quick!

Thanks for the excellent explanation, dude! I also think it is best to try to incorporate all of the tactics in the gameplay.

Also, one question that might sound wierd at first but stay with me, you'll understand if you've played a fighting game for a long time:

Is there any 'bullshit' in DOA? With that I mean gamemechanics that are just completely retarded?

Example: In Tekken most moves have certain properties. Moves can be homing moves (tracking to both sides guaranteed) og non tracking move -i.e. linear.

But sometimes, even if they are non-tracking moves, they will still track to one side or both! You can let's say, step a move to the right, but not to the left. Even worse, some moves, let's say a non-tracking move that tracks to the left, still cannot be sidestepped to the right, bacause they also slightly track to the right, so they have to be sidewalked to the right! (Sidewalking = keep sidestepping to that direction.)

So yeah, that's a little bit of the bullshit in Tekken, good luck trying to remember all the hundreds of moves and strings for 59 (!) characters and sidestepping them in the correct direction at the exact frame you're allowed to do that. It's next to impossible in an actual fight where you are stressed. Tekken is a real clusterfuck at close range where high level of defense is really difficult, but being aggressive and on the offense demands almost no skills.

So in Tekken, almost 90% of the players learn to be aggressive and spam strings and launchers but nobody cares to learn how to defend properly. It's just not worth it even at intermediate to lower-high levels. Because the demand on the reflexes plus the level of knowledge and execution is way too high for decent defense, than even high level offense.

This is one of the main reasons I grew tired of Tekken. After years of playing it and even winning tournaments, the level of bullshit in Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (the latest Tekken game) is way too much to handle. I'm still too new to DOA to understand everything in it deeply, thus my question;

What is the 'bullshit' of DOA?

What are the most retarded things in DOA?

 

[David Gregg]

Is there any 'bullshit' in DOA? With that I mean things that are just completely retarded?

 

[Brute]

Also, one question that might sound wierd at first but stay with me, you'll understand if you've played a fighting game for a long time:
Is there any 'bullshit' in DOA? With that I mean gamemechanics that are just completely retarded?

Yes. I have yet to play a fighting game that is bullshit-free, however.

What those elements are will depend on who you ask, as different things are appreciated/despised depending on the individual player. Some things are a bit "covert" and will surprise new players who encounter them and don't know the full system. Such things may include: stagger escaping, throw break system, offensive holds, unholdable attacks, unblockable attacks, head/butt/body attacks, guard breaks that leave the attacker at negative frames, attacks that end in crouching status and must be low-throw punished, special ground attacks, ceiling hit guaranteeing a free follow-up of any kind, limbo/rising/sit-down/stagger stuns, open/closed stance, and tag mode-exclusive infinite loops.

If you see some weird nonsense going on that you don't understand, it's best to just ask someone about it because usually there is a solid explanation, but whether you like the mechanic and/or consider it BS is purely subjective. Generally most complaints people have, however, are with character-specific things rather than system-specific things.

 

[esotericthought]

DOA is bullshit free, there are some moves and mechanics that you can learn to step up your game a little with.

 

[Marcio]

DOA is NOT bullshit free. The wake up kick mechanic is annoying as hell.
I can understand why they implemented it but they should significantly decrease the invincibility frames of wake up kicks. Especially since they nerfed the force tech game with DOA5U.

 

[RoboJoe]

Wow, that was quick!

Thanks for the excellent explanation, dude! I also think it is best to try to incorporate all of the tactics in the gameplay.

Also, one question that might sound wierd at first but stay with me, you'll understand if you've played a fighting game for a long time:

Is there any 'bullshit' in DOA? With that I mean gamemechanics that are just completely retarded?

Example: In Tekken most moves have certain properties. Moves can be homing moves (tracking to both sides guaranteed) og non tracking move -i.e. linear.

But sometimes, even if they are non-tracking moves, they will still track to one side or both! You can let's say, step a move to the right, but not to the left. Even worse, some moves, let's say a non-tracking move that tracks to the left, still cannot be sidestepped to the right, bacause they also slightly track to the right, so they have to be sidewalked to the right! (Sidewalking = keep sidestepping to that direction.)

So yeah, that's a little bit of the bullshit in Tekken, good luck trying to remember all the hundreds of moves and strings for 59 (!) characters and sidestepping them in the correct direction at the exact frame you're allowed to do that. It's next to impossible in an actual fight where you are stressed. Tekken is a real clusterfuck at close range where high level of defense is really difficult, but being aggressive and on the offense demands almost no skills.

So in Tekken, almost 90% of the players learn to be aggressive and spam strings and launchers but nobody cares to learn how to defend properly. It's just not worth it even at intermediate to lower-high levels. Because the demand on the reflexes plus the level of knowledge and execution is way too high for decent defense, than even high level offense.

This is one of the main reasons I grew tired of Tekken. After years of playing it and even winning tournaments, the level of bullshit in Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (the latest Tekken game) is way too much to handle. I'm still too new to DOA to understand everything in it deeply, thus my question;

What is the 'bullshit' of DOA?

What are the most retarded things in DOA?

Yeah, there's bullshit in DOA. There are wonky hit and hurt boxes, moves that unintentionally track in one direction like you dislike, moves that magically teleport you behind an opponent, moves that are listed as having one property, but have a different one, and probably other things that I can't remember. There are also mechanics that are generally disliked and are considered bullshit by lots of people, but they are intentionally made that way.

 

[esotericthought]

like I said, DOA is bullshit free but there are a few people that don't know how to tech roll still.

 

[Marcio]

like I said, DOA is NOT bullshit free. Invincibility frames of wake up kicks are still annoying.

 

[StrikerSashi]

If you want changes on Kokoro, I can tell them to you. There isn't really a list of changes for every character, though.

Tiers are definitely a thing. Now this is just my opinion, but I feel that the tier list for 5U is basically the tier list for 5, except with the difference between tiers bigger. Move Gen Fu up, Ryu and Zack a bit up, Jann Lee a bit down, Tina down, Kokoro down, put Rachel somewhere in top 6-7 and that's the 5U tierlist. DOA triangle system is still there, though, so it's still very possible to win even matchups like Bass vs Kasumi or Kokoro vs Christie, which are like Mei-Fang vs Petra in AH3.

Game plan in general is a combination of baiting holds so you can do a throw that takes out half their health and mixing up strikes in stun and launch them for a big juggle.

You're usually fine when sidestepping a single strike, but if you try to sidestep a string, it'll still clip you sometimes even if none of the strikes in that string track. Usually.

As for wakeup kicks, it is pretty annoying. Safe on block, tracking, wakeup reversals. You can bait them, though. Only real bullshit is that you don't really have that much of an advantage after a knockdown.

EDIT: That string track thing is pretty bullshit, though. If it doesn't track, don't have it track.

 

[Blazeincarnated]

6T tracks all sidesteps? YES!

 

[MasterHavik]

6T tracks all sidesteps? YES!

for who?

 

[StrikerSashi]

Too bad you aren't tracking JAK with a throw. :v