"まだまだ^^" The Kokoro Video Thread

Kokomi

Member
I've finally decided to record some Kokoro videos because I am in dire need of advice, for the sake of getting better with Kokoro's offensive game. Just a few things to note, I used to main Kokoro until I switched over Hitomi, so most of my skills are just really sucky with her right now. I apologize for that. You'll see that I favor a lot of :4::P+K: for launching, I also apologize for that because that's the only launcher that I don't have to stop and think about when I am trying to aim for a juggle. I also have a tendency to abuse :4::P::P::P::P:. Again, my apologies for that. My Kokoro is overall really bad. In terms of juggling, I just gave up doing intricate combos like :P+K: into :214::P: during juggles, and I don't generally use :9::P: for extension because I know the lag may somehow screw it or my hands aren't quick enough, so in all honesty, I just play the safe juggle game. I like holding kicks as Kokoro, her holds for kicks just look so stylish and nice, I had to do it. Regardless, since I wanna get competitive as Hitomi and Kokoro, please do criticize my Kokoro.



 

Kokomi

Member
Decided to upload this in a new post because no one answered me still.
As usual, comments appreciated.

Thank you!

 

FlamingMuffin

Active Member
Kokomi,

Just some general things I saw:

You've already realized that you don't mix up the launcher and only use 4PPPP as a juggle ender. Nothing particularly wrong with the latter, but you should try and mix up the former.

Learn to love and use her in-string grabs more, particularly P2KF+P and 33PF+P. I love the latter. Great closing in move, and if the first stuns, the transition into Heichu offers to extend the stun further.

Speaking of Heichu, try and enter it more for pressure (until the opponent sidesteps). 8P and 2F+K are my favourite transitions. And speaking of 8P, 8P6P is hot. Spam that stuff!

When the opponent counters, you go for 66F+P. Again, nothing wrong with this, but her 214F+P throw will offer a bit more damage (plus it's sexier).

Lastly, I think the most major problem I saw was a somewhat disregard for frame disadvantage. More than a few times I saw you try and attack after one of your strings being blocked. Quite often, you got CH'ed. I saw you try and throw after landing 2F+KK on NH. If they opponent doesn't realize that its -4 on hit, it can work. Just be wary that some people know it's true frame data.

Hopefully this helps a bit, although I myself am no Kokoro master.
 

Kokomi

Member
Kokomi,

Just some general things I saw:

You've already realized that you don't mix up the launcher and only use 4PPPP as a juggle ender. Nothing particularly wrong with the latter, but you should try and mix up the former.

Learn to love and use her in-string grabs more, particularly P2KF+P and 33PF+P. I love the latter. Great closing in move, and if the first stuns, the transition into Heichu offers to extend the stun further. Because again, I forgot how many various ways her post heichu P can go.

Speaking of Heichu, try and enter it more for pressure (until the opponent sidesteps). 8P and 2F+K are my favourite transitions. And speaking of 8P, 8P6P is hot. Spam that stuff!

When the opponent counters, you go for 66F+P. Again, nothing wrong with this, but her 214F+P throw will offer a bit more damage (plus it's sexier).

Lastly, I think the most major problem I saw was a somewhat disregard for frame disadvantage. More than a few times I saw you try and attack after one of your strings being blocked. Quite often, you got CH'ed. I saw you try and throw after landing 2F+KK on NH. If they opponent doesn't realize that its -4 on hit, it can work. Just be wary that some people know it's true frame data.

Hopefully this helps a bit, although I myself am no Kokoro master.

I think the problem with my Kokoro is my unfamiliarity with her move list. Her moves are so extremely versatile that I lost track of which moves have Heichu transitions. There were a few times I manage to perform Heichu transitions but forget to strike mid way after performing Heichu.

In regards to her throw, I still have problems with her 214T (F+P is T right :x?). I haven't gotten the hang of it, especially the final chain.That's why I utilize her 66T instead, need help on her chain throw though.

Believe me, there were times that I wanted to launch enemies on 7K or 33P+K instead, extend and perform long juggles with 7P, and use enders like 7PP2KP. But it just never happened and I condemn myself for being such a failure with Kokoro T_T.

I think you're right about me not paying attention to my frame status. With Kokoro, I just go all out thinking that she can maintain that kind of in-your-face pressure due to how versatile her strings are, I was hoping I can keep the opponents on constant block until I find an opening. At least that's how I see it when I watch top players play Kokoro, they just keep coming with different strings everytime their previous move was blocked, but then again, they knew what they were doing. I think its a bad habit I need to shake off.

I used to be better at performing 66P+K in quick succession, now I'm just so sloppy. I need to work on that too. Thank you for your kind words :), I hope the next time I upload any Kokoro videos, there will be some improvement~

P/S: I love JGL too :D.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
Online Kokoro doesn't always have to worry about frames too much.. 66P is an entirely different move in lag, I swear it gives like +5 on block :p

Anyway your Koko's not bad, just use her cancels more and try to work PK2P, 3K2P, etc. into your game.
 

Kokomi

Member
Online Kokoro doesn't always have to worry about frames too much.. 66P is an entirely different move in lag, I swear it gives like +5 on block :p

Anyway your Koko's not bad, just use her cancels more and try to work PK2P, 3K2P, etc. into your game.

Ah yes. Since we're talking about her kicks in to 2P. I needed to ask this, does her 2P have a delay? I main Kokoro and Hitomi. And for Hitomi, it seems like you need to press the buttons in quick succession just to have the game register the move. But for Kokoro, it feels different, like you have to time it. Under what circumstances is K2P usable? Most of the time when I end up using it, it goes three ways.

1. It gets blocked.
2. It gets held.
3. I get struck before the move is successfully performed.

I think my application of 3K2P is really bad.
 

FlamingMuffin

Active Member
PK2P/3K2P/1KK2P, all can have the 2P delayed by an insane amount. It's generally only used to keep the opponent honest from punishing PK/3K/1KK and as a mixup for the 4K/P enders. The 2P itself only offers +2-+6 and weak damage and is unsafe.
 
kokoro in general is an advanced character for advanced opponents, rarely online will you get to set up the throw punish outta her strings cause everyone will just get hit, or her fake move, just 66P and 2HK all day
66P-6P-4PK and then finish it, you will stomp
 

riceman789

Member
I'm not sure if you guys saw the video of me going against Mr.Wah at team GF for Winter Brawl can any of you guys help me out with that match-up. It was pretty hard for me to deal with since I don't really go against that character often. There are like a lot of videos of me in the archieve on that day as well and some from Gill Hustle's steram as well but I'll just start with this one first. During this match I was just really depending on fundamentals from my 2d background experience since I'm still trying to develop my 3d fundamentals lol!!
http://www.twitch.tv/freestepdodge/b/370531638 it starts around 2:28
 

Reikou

Member
I'd like to upload a video for heavy criticism, because I've realized that I'm absolutely terrible at this game, but I'm really unsure of what sort of match I should upload.

Should I upload matches where I'm completely outplayed and wrecked to highlight my obvious weaknesses? Or should I upload videos of me against really bad opponents that I beat completely to highlight my crutches? Or should I upload matches that I do decently in/against similar skilled opponents to show a bit of both?
 

Jiraiya-Sama2390

Active Member
I'd like to upload a video for heavy criticism, because I've realized that I'm absolutely terrible at this game, but I'm really unsure of what sort of match I should upload.

Should I upload matches where I'm completely outplayed and wrecked to highlight my obvious weaknesses? Or should I upload videos of me against really bad opponents that I beat completely to highlight my crutches? Or should I upload matches that I do decently in/against similar skilled opponents to show a bit of both?

Just upload whatever videos you want and we'll give the necessary feedback
 

Reikou

Member
I guess i'll put a few videos down then.

These are two matches from a bout I did against a S- Alpha152 player with me losing one, and then winning one.
http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/c/2083177

I went 20 or so rounds, and happened to win one. No matter how I think about it, I really couldn't come up with a solid strategy to beat him at all, and really don't think there was anything I could really do to win at my current skill level/reaction time, and the one time I won was just a fluke. But I would very much appreciate any sort of major criticism about how I play.

These are another two matches again another Kasumi Player who (I think) is very good. I beat him a few times, but he quickly caught on and started to completely trash me. In this video again, I win once, and lose once, but in the end, I think it was something like 2 wins - 15 losses against this player.

http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/c/2083238

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Sorry for the bad quality/dark video. This is the best I can do at the moment.

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On a related note, is there any point in playing these players that completely trash me so quickly that I have no idea how or why I lose, and have absolutely chance at winning, or should I play more opponents at a similar skill level?
 

PgoezinC

New Member
Pardon me for starting out slow in both of these videos... that's just a bad habit of mine.



Also, a little more easy going...

 

NightAntilli

Well-Known Member
I guess i'll put a few videos down then.

These are two matches from a bout I did against a S- Alpha152 player with me losing one, and then winning one.
http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/c/2083177

I went 20 or so rounds, and happened to win one. No matter how I think about it, I really couldn't come up with a solid strategy to beat him at all, and really don't think there was anything I could really do to win at my current skill level/reaction time, and the one time I won was just a fluke. But I would very much appreciate any sort of major criticism about how I play.
Well... You still have a lot to learn it seems.. Was this match very laggy? The way it goes, it makes me think lag was messing a few things up.. Anyway.. Let's see..

- The first impression I get is that you barely know any of her moves. You should go through her moves list every single time before you start playing. After a week you'll know all the moves, and you can stop doing that. When you know more moves and their properties, it's a lot easier to keep offense.

- Spamming 6P6P will get you beat up against good players. Try mixing up your moves more

- Sometimes it's better to just grab a blocking opponent instead of trying to punch them.

- After Alpha gets knocked down, there's no need to run backwards. You do that multiple times in this video She doesn't have wake-up kicks. Only a special one that's easily blocked. So stay close. Note that this is when playing against Alpha only. Against other characters, it's good to back away if they don't tech roll.

- At 0:48, when you learn more of her moves, you'll have to learn wall juggles to increase your damage. You wasted a good opportunity for additional damage there.

- Don't always try to get up with a wake-up kick, especially if the opponent is out of range.

- 2:31 was a moment where you should've used 6P6P instead of just 6P, since the opponent was back turned. Try to react according to what position the opponent is in.

- 2:39, you should've launched. Learn your launchers. Main ones are 7K and 4P+K. You could've also used a critical burst there, and then launched. Her bursting move is 7P.

- 2:49, you launched, but completely miss the juggle. Learning juggles is important to capitalize on your max damage potential. Go to training mode and test what works. Otherwise, just look in other threads here, where multiple juggles are discussed. I doubt you even knew it was gonna launch in the first place, so again, learn all her moves. That includes her BT ones.

- 2:51, after P+K, you have +1 frame advantage, you can keep attacking, as long as you use her fastest moves. Otherwise the opponent will beat you out.

- 3:17 to 3:20, again, react to what situation your opponent is in. He was knocked down, but you keep spamming moves anyway. You then get hit in the face, which was inevitable. If the opponent is knocked down, wait till they get up, or use a move that hits them while on the ground.

These are another two matches again another Kasumi Player who (I think) is very good. I beat him a few times, but he quickly caught on and started to completely trash me. In this video again, I win once, and lose once, but in the end, I think it was something like 2 wins - 15 losses against this player.

http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/c/2083238
The kasumi is decent, not great. It seems however that you know slightly more in this video than in the prior one. you even launch and juggle now xD. Still a bit predictable though, since you always start with the exact same moves (66P), and follow up with the same thing over and over (2F+K P). In any case, here we go.

- 0:13, that's the time you run up to your opponent to keep the pressure up. You just hit her. There's no reason to stand around.

- 0:32, same as prior video. If you knew a wall juggle, you could've done additional damage and win the round right there. You still won the round, but against a better player, you could've lost. It's all about not wasting chances for damage. Another wall juggle moment is 2:17.

- 0:55, that's a situation that gives you a free launcher since the opponent is in a sitdown stun. There's no reason to back away or stand around. Launch, do your juggle for additional damage. Same goes for 0:58. DOA is a very environmentally heavy game. You should learn them, and know when you can keep the pressure up and increase your damage output.

- Another general thing is.. Don't spam the holds. Grabs do a ton of damage. Hold when you think you know what's coming.

On a related note, is there any point in playing these players that completely trash me so quickly that I have no idea how or why I lose, and have absolutely chance at winning, or should I play more opponents at a similar skill level?
Similar skill level is more appropriate. When you have no idea why you lose, you will not learn anything. Slightly better opponents is the best, since they challenge you while you can still follow what's going on.
 

Reikou

Member
Thanks for the advice.

I know most of her moves, but its just that I can't find good timings to use a lot of them and just end up spamming the same moves over and over and over. Especially 2F+KK.

Whenever I play against lesser opponents, I get to experiment more and try out different moves, but whenever I'm against someone good, I just end up going back to my usual routine of 66P 2F+KK 7K 4PPPP.

I've tried to practice a lot of the combos in the combo thread, and can pull them off in training mode, but again, whenever I'm in an actual match, I just can't seem to find good timings to use them at all.

I'm also wondering, is there any good way to practice holding?
 

NightAntilli

Well-Known Member
Hm.. I don't really know a method for practicing holds. I got better at holding after playing a lot, and trying to read the opponent. I basically ask myself what I would do in that situation, and then I hold accordingly. Obviously I'm nowhere near 100% accurate, but it's a lot better than using them randomly. Also, I don't know if you slow escape, but that's a great alternative to holding in quite a few situations.

As for not knowing when to use your moves.. That comes hand in hand with reacting to your opponent's position. Things to take into account are the reach of the moves, their speed, their properties (like being circular vs linear, high/mid/low, safe/unsafe/advantage on block, [re]launcher or not etc) and their evasiveness. For example, trying to use 33P up close is probably not a good idea, because it's way too slow, and the opponent will probably beat you out. Trying to use 6P at long range is probably not a good idea because it'll whiff and let the opponent attack you freely. So, to know when to use moves is basically knowing what the best options are at any particular range. One of the good things about Kokoro is that she can hold her own at any range. Experiment with what hits at what distances, and you'll be using a lot of her moves in no-time.

The main two things you need to get accustomed to and master are her in-string grabs, and her heichu stance. Those are great tools to confuse your opponent and keep the pressure on. It's her bread and butter.
 

Reikou

Member
I see. I try to use Heichu, but mostly again from 2F+K.

One thing I've noticed I'm having a lot of trouble with, and something I've noticed good players do is use 2P a lot. I'm still trying to figure out how exactly and when exactly to use 2P on Kokoro. Do you think you can shed some light onto this?

I've also started to force myself to use Kokoro's 3-chain throw whenever possible, and I notice I've been doing a lot better now. Instead of looking for openings to attack, I'm now looking for openings to do the throw, which has helped me a lot.

I have also tried working in 1K into my attacks, specifically the 1KK4K chain, and it works out alright.

I've also tried adding 3K into my attack patterns, but I can't seem to figure out a good timing to use it. Its rather slow, and enemies can easily block it.
 

NightAntilli

Well-Known Member
2P is ok. I personally rarely ever use it. It's good to interrupt attacks and turn the momentum around though. The best time to use it is when you think/know a high attack is coming. It stops the opponent's attack and gives you a chance to attack instead. The less Kokoro is on the defensive, the better.

Her 3-chain throw is great. I always loved it, and it does great damage on HC.

3K is one of my favorite moves. Not because of the 3K itself, but because of the options she has afterwards. It's good for mixing up your attacks. I guess with practice you'll learn which follow-up to use at which moments. 3K itself is good for mid range.
 

Murakame

Active Member
2P is also neutral on hit. Meaning when it connects you can continue to pressure your opponent. Good times to use it would be after FCing moves the opponent has to respect such as 6P strings and 3K strings. You can really keep the offense going when you alternate between her string grabs/ mixups and heichu with a occasional FC mixup. ( because you are always taking a risk when you free cancel moves).
 
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