DOA5 Demo: Consolidated Feedback

[Allan Paris]

So let's say the holds on stun are removed... that would still leave the simplicity of the hold system, which is why the 4-point hold system to complement the expert holds is being suggested. The mid kick expert hold's is the opposite of the mid punch version anyway; may as well make the standard mid kick hold direction 6.

I am not completely following this. Yeah the mid expert holds are different but it seems like for characters that had holds that launched/bounced TN have made them expert holds. So characters are not getting ridiculous holds off with one direction inputs anymore.

If the holds were taken out of stun, 3-point with expert holds would still be fine.

Generally this also goes for the other characters as well. Cuz if barriers are back in DOA5 why would attack after jumping over a wall?

Who says one of the jumping over options can't be turned into a high strike or throw?

Well if they give characters more options like I posted earlier, the 3 point system could work me.

I think you should change your game-plan. This game now has something that you can make your opponents fear for relying on guessing, guaranteed damage.

Expert mid kick hold and plain back hold can counter jumping mid kicks as well, but I don't know if there's any difference in damage.

Expert holds do more damage than normal holds.

 

[Awesmic]

I am not completely following this. Yeah the mid expert holds are different but it seems like for characters that had holds that launched/bounced TN have made them expert holds. So characters are not getting ridiculous holds off with one direction inputs anymore.

All I was saying was that the normal single-direction mid kick hold should be 6 instead of 4, which currently shares the same direction as the mid punch hold based on this demo. Just 'cause I said it should have the 4-point hold system like DOA2U and DOA4 before it does not mean I want the same effects from those holds. I'm well aware of why the expert holds are there, and I'm fine with that.

But for the sake of not getting bashed here any further, I'll just reverse my opinion and go with majority's say on the 3-point holds since everyone seems to be singling me out and getting on my case about it.

 

[Gill Hustle]

I think you should change your game-plan. This game now has something that you can make your opponents fear for relying on guessing, guaranteed damage.

Ha ha, I've been going through the vids I posted and am starting to notice the holes in my game

 

[x Sypher x]

But for the sake of not getting bashed here any further, I'll just reverse my opinion and go with majority's say on the 3-point holds since everyone seems to be singling me out and getting on my case about it.

You are so sensitive.

 

[Allan Paris]

Just 'cause I said it should have the 4-point hold system like DOA2U and DOA4 before it does not mean I want the same effects from those holds.

Well why didn't you say this? By doing this you would want the mid-kick holds to do a different animation *new* (from previous iterations) and keeping the expert holds still launching/bouncing like they already do? I assume this is what you mean by bringing back the 4-point hold system? I am not a mind reader, if you have a point to make please make it clear.

But for the sake of not getting bashed here any further, I'll just reverse my opinion and go with majority's say on the 3-point holds since everyone seems to be singling me out and getting on my case about it.

I think you purposely say shit like this to get a rise out of people. From me to you, I personally give no fuck whatsoever about your insecurities.

 

[grap3fruitman]

But for the sake of not getting bashed here any further, I'll just reverse my opinion and go with majority's say on the 3-point holds since everyone seems to be singling me out and getting on my case about it.

Who's bashing you? Is having a legitimate conversation considered "bashing" now?

 

[UncleKitchener]

If you want the 4-point hold system, then you are literally worst than Hitler.

 

[Allan Paris]

If you want the 4-point hold system, then you are literally worst than Hitler.

4-point is not bad at all. Just in DOA4 the numbers behind them were unfair to the person on the offensive. TN has fixed that problem (active frames of them need to be a little tighter along with more recovery, imo) and at the same time went back to 3-points, which is fine. Although I am a fan of the 4-point, the main issues were the numbers behind the holds.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Adding more holds is just a crutch and not an actual fix. Hell, if they actually fixed the issues with the holds, which is not limited to the frames, we could even go back to a two-point system like in DOA1.

 

[x Sypher x]

What's the difference between 3-point and 4-point anyway? And I don't mean that literally. Like why do some prefer 4 over 3?

 

[Allan Paris]

I wouldn't go as far as calling more or less points a crutch, but that's me.

If DOA went back to a 2-point system count me out, I wouldn't care how fixed they are, shit, they could even be perfect. Honestly it's all a matter of preference, the situations they should be used in need to be fixed as of now. But I don't think TN will remove them from stuns, so the numbers behind them along with their damage output are the main focal points, it seems that way as of now.

The points in holding, at least to me, is not the overall issue with them.

Like why do some prefer 4 over 3?

That's just it, it's a preference. People who prefer one over the other have valid arguments as to why they prefer them.

 

[Berzerk!]

I would tend to agree that if that take the ability to defensive hold out of critical stuns, you probably don't need the 4 point system.

If they do not make that change, then a 4 point system would be more needed as it creates greater certainty and clarity of move selection for an attacker as mid level punches and kicks can be countered "by accident" more than highs and lows.

Either way, they have made important changes to the active window, recovery and damage of holds to make the system more viable. It needs to do one of the above to really nail it.

 

[x Sypher x]

That's just it, it's a preference. People who prefer one over the other have valid arguments as to why they prefer them.

So what is your valid argument for a 4-point system?

 

[UncleKitchener]

Alright then, you can have a 6 point hold system if you think people would hold less.

 

[Berzerk!]

Alright then, you can have a 6 point hold system if you think people would hold less.

No need to be facetious. That's a "more is more" approach and games need to be balanced with accessibility and ease of use against fiddly or mistaken inputs. Gave a good reason for 4 point above. Mid-height mixups require a little more thought on the part of the defender, since switching to highs gets ducked by low counter, and lows are beaten by it. You need to mix up mid punch and mid kick at times in DOA and it improves the attackers ability to pressure if the defender needs to decide between P or K countering at this height level.

Beyond that, you don't need to split the counters out any more because the height system serves up enough choices.

(And don't forget I also agreed the alternative is to remove holds from critical state, but you could have both and it would be a very tight system.)

 

[UncleKitchener]

No, I'm serious. They can still make all regular holds parry and all advanced holds damage. That way the attacker will still have more of an advantage. It's either three or six. If you're gonna make it 4-point system, then everyone's going to be standardised and those lacking mix-ups will go in the shitter.

 

[Allan Paris]

So what is your valid argument for a 4-point system?

• I have been playing with 4-points (DOA2U-4) longer than I have with 3 or less. In a nutshell 4-points is what I am accustomed to playing with.
• I feel that it is more work for the defender to figure out what they are going to be hit/launched/bounced with.
• The mid area is where blows are most common/frequent.
• 4-points allowed an attacking mix-up that could showcase flair and flashyness by players who are good at reading their opponents defensive patterns.
• I like the precision it enables me to have.
• 4-points also exercises my hand-eye coordination. I have a deep appreciation and respect for an individuals hand-eye coordination and, I also take great pride in mine. So I love it when I play or do activities I enjoy that stimulates it.

Alright then, you can have a 6 point hold system if you think people would hold less.

I like this.

 

[Jefffcore]

The game relies heavily on mids... And therein 4 point holds were born. 6 point still leaves mids easier to hold. If you want 6, mid k and p should be advanced I like 4 as long as it's done right. I've also changed my mind about holds being removed from critical, I don't think it's necessary.

 

[UncleKitchener]

If you like guessing (and I assume guessing right), then why not have even more guessing? I love guessing and flow charts both. I'm in the process of writing a book on how double-entry bookkeeping can be applied to fighting games.

You can have mid holds like back in 2U/H and highs and lows as 67/61 advance holds. And EVEN BETTER; remove holds from stuns.

 

[Matt Ponton]

One thing that keeps getting on my nerves, and is something that was prevalent as far back as DOA3 (not sure about DOA2), but if you press while holding it will perform a hold. I mean this as an exaggerated holding period. You can literally be holding for a minute, press and it performs a mid hold. This drives me insane, especially in DOA3 where holds are so easily punishable: Backstepping and spacing to guard an oncoming attack and you hold instead...

It should require a user to return to neutral and initiate and .

I've been trying to get around this by just using to guard. But there's an initial backstep before it triggers the guard, meaning i can't guard instantly from this method.