DOA5 Demo: Consolidated Feedback
- Thread starter Berzerk!
- Start date
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Keylay I like your idea that in critical stun holds might have input delay vs not working altogether (not sure what would be best for players to understand)
About picking certain moves that would cause specific stuns that prevent specific holds, I have to say this is way too complicated and goes against what fighting game systems need to do and are trending towards. Doa has a huge potential advantage due to simple systems for all players, new ones especially
About picking certain moves that would cause specific stuns that prevent specific holds, I have to say this is way too complicated and goes against what fighting game systems need to do and are trending towards. Doa has a huge potential advantage due to simple systems for all players, new ones especially
synce
Well-Known Member
Bring back the following:
- replays
- character movement after win
- camera movement during win pose
It'd also be nice if Izuna Drop required actual skill to pull off, not random twirling.
The ground game sucks too, I don't want that weak karate chop shit from DOA3, I want to kick and poke them at will.
And I hope they didn't remove offensive holds completely. At least some characters should have them.
- replays
- character movement after win
- camera movement during win pose
It'd also be nice if Izuna Drop required actual skill to pull off, not random twirling.
The ground game sucks too, I don't want that weak karate chop shit from DOA3, I want to kick and poke them at will.
And I hope they didn't remove offensive holds completely. At least some characters should have them.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
yeah, the grappling ones.
Gill Hustle
Well-Known Member
We were discussing the PB attacks in another thread so here's something I think should be added to them:
1. PB SS cancel should have different movement properties over normal SS. PB's are riskier so maybe SS is faster, travels more distance, better evasion or all these properties.
2. I think PB's work a lot like SF4 focus attacks, so I think not only stepping left and right, but being able to go forward and back might be good too.
1. PB SS cancel should have different movement properties over normal SS. PB's are riskier so maybe SS is faster, travels more distance, better evasion or all these properties.
2. I think PB's work a lot like SF4 focus attacks, so I think not only stepping left and right, but being able to go forward and back might be good too.
matsu
Member
I thought about it too but you beat me to it .^^
Especially with sidesteps being a little weak atm and with crouch dash too.
Gill Hustle
Well-Known Member
Just throwing stuff out, It's more to differ between the normals SS.
*edit*
Also since we haven't seen how offensive holds work, than my thoughts could change regarding those too.
matsu
Member
I think they might end useless at higher level.so a little bit more flexibility wouldn't hurt.Look at sf4 ultras where fun at the beginning but at the end you almost only landed them in combos.Dashing to throw your opponent while he tries to hold would be good imo.They should not have a superior sidestep they coul enhance the sidestep in general.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
The difference between Ultras in SF4 and PBs in DOA5 is that Ultras cost meter. You don't even have access to them until half your life is gone, and even then they do the absolute minimum amount of damage. PBs can be used anytime throughout a match, with no restriction.
There's a fine line between balanced and overpowered with something like this. Right now I think they're fine just as they are.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Power Blows seem fine to me, its just the sidestep that's a little weak. If they fix sidesteps generally, cancelling into sidestep from PB will be more effective.
PB is still a good tool for forcing a guard break or if timed just right, hitting into an opponent who likes to push buttons at disadvantage, into strings from a few steps away, did a poorly spaced long recovery move, or isn't careful with wakeup kicks.
PB is still a good tool for forcing a guard break or if timed just right, hitting into an opponent who likes to push buttons at disadvantage, into strings from a few steps away, did a poorly spaced long recovery move, or isn't careful with wakeup kicks.
Black Dragon
Active Member
Does sidestepping feel intuitive in DOA5?
DriftSlave
Active Member
sometimes i don't get this logic so, i'll just say it. Why are Powerblows fine the way they are...i swear i saw Dr.Dogg say that in high level play, they are damn near completely useless...so im kinda scratching my head saying...why is this ok. I seen Masters give a in depth explanation on Powerblows and DOA4 charge attacks and linked a video supporting this...and Dr. Dogg just dismisses this....so im trying to make sense of this...how can you use Powerblows in a high level environment? Should they be changed to being high damage punishment tools?(via after certain advance holds?) or should they be hail mary's that can win your or make you lose a round....what's the point if you virtually can't land one in a match is what im getting at.
Ultra's are a common example in comparing the two...at least with a large % of ultra's you can combo into them(even if it requires FADC or 1 frame links) Powerblows don't seem like you can combo into them normally....at least without a Limbo Stun(which seem rare a hell btw) so I don't see why they shouldn't be changed if they'll never really be used.
sorry in advance for going a tab bit off subject but...it's something i need clarification on....
Ultra's are a common example in comparing the two...at least with a large % of ultra's you can combo into them(even if it requires FADC or 1 frame links) Powerblows don't seem like you can combo into them normally....at least without a Limbo Stun(which seem rare a hell btw) so I don't see why they shouldn't be changed if they'll never really be used.
sorry in advance for going a tab bit off subject but...it's something i need clarification on....
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
The way they are in the beta they don't do an excessive amount of damage unless you knock someone into the generator/car, and they can't be combo'd into, so they're not the easiest thing to use unless you know how to get in your opponents head. You only get one opportunity to knock someone into the generator/car, so even if they could be combo'd into they wouldn't be abusable; not every level will have those options either. I see no problem with having the ability to combo into them.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
They are fine the way they are in the sense of them getting faster (frame-wise) as some people have suggested to make them useful. If they got faster there would need to be some type of meter to stop them from being used at will because they can lead up to ridiculous damage like Ultras in SF4.
They are useless because; they are slow, easily seen (white smoke like charge attacks), hits only in the mid section with a 3-point hold system, most decent to the majority of high level players will and can react to them; holding them on command. There aren't any guaranteed setups to even use them in and, the limbo stun is not one of them, the move takes to long to execute, someone SE'ing or not will fall to the ground before you activate the move.
I won't go over why certain players feel they are useful because you've obviously know that info.
Yes, Master did provide a vid supporting his point. Did he catch a good player slipping, yeah, he did. Shit happens, no one is saying they will never connect; just that the probability of them connecting against extremely good players consistently, if at all, is not high. I as well as several other wouldn't recommend you doing a PB unless; you are punishing someone whiffing stupid moves and/or to cover ground, or hitting someone from a whiff'd wake-up kick. Other than those 2 scenarios, as of now, it wouldn't be wise to release them, only to SS-cancel them.
In a high level environment, play smart. Throwing out PBs wouldn't be all that smart. Me personally I can tell you, I've been hit once in a tournament by Master but, I had already mentally given up on the match and wanted to get to the next one. I shouldn't have had that mindset but I did at that moment because I was already up one and I was annoyed by my mistakes. However, I went and won that set we played and the rest is history. Will or would he have hit me with it again, most likely not because he didn't try it again on me like he did with NinjaCW. Now that I know he will throw them out I will not let it fly again even if things are not looking up for me at the time.
They deliver too much damage to be a consistent punishment tool. They should remain being the Hail Mary factor that they already are. I honestly believe that PBs are strictly for eye-candy, for the casuals to do so something cool-looking.
In the new trailer it seems they have removed the smoke from the PBs and, that will make them a little more interesting.
As Rikuto said, "Move Recognition baby."
hi there, theres a whole thread on powerblows with alot of conflicting opinions ...
from one end powerblows can be pretty effective at whiff punishes ...
from another the mind game of a powerblow/sidestep can be very good in threatening people ... in fact from personal experience with the demo when Im at a safe distance I tend to go for this to put the opponent in some sort of a fear of approaching or to bait out a hold... becuause unlike charge attacks .. to my knowledge powerblows are the first cancelable moves in DOA .. everything before was more or less a commitment ... and that with a game heavily reliant on holds is a big deal ..
now naturally the main issue with them is that they are slow ... but in away this is a good thing since they dont become spammable and you dont see them every 5 minutes .. and the only time you see them would be either for a bait.. or a flat out punish (i personally like the slowness but i wouldnt mind it being a few frames faster but not more)
comboing them from a limbo might be an edge some characters may have over others (so far in the demo i could pull off limbo setups with hayabusa and ayane ... anyone got setups with hitomi and hayate?)
you also need to factor in human error ...
many times you react to the smoke start adn go for a hold ... if the opponent released his blow a bit later he can pretty much stuff you in the recovery frames ...
another way is to keep your cool n go for a reaction sidestep punish ...
theres so many applications for it .. even in its current slow state in the alpha demo ...
not to mention that on block, as long as the smoke comes out you can guard crush/break ..
plus at it first few frames it works as a little step back which is acctually quite useful ...
if some people think that at high level they currently have no use then they're entitled to that opinion ... but I personally think they do have some useses ... but not to the point that makes them spammale ... and for any game thats a good thing ...
it seems that you have a bit of an sf background since this isnt the first time you refer to it ... in a way you cant really compare the two because the way to deal garanteed damage is very different ... the main difference being that once you stunn someone with something even if its a light jab ... that can lead to a really devestating combo that you pretty much cant do anything about and in many cases yes it can lead to ultra.. you can pretty much see yourself die 5-6 seconds before you die ... in DOA its not the case ... as long as your feet are on the ground and you're facing forward .. you have a chance to turn it around with either a slow escape or a correctly timed hold ... again not the greatest options but this is how the game flows ... ofcourse recovery of the different stuns vary and that dictates when the holds come out ... this also plays a huge factor in a sense that your hold attempt becomes more obvious and it becomes more difficult to slow escape .. once you get the launcher or get limboed (or hit from the back for any reason) .. theres not much you can do .. now imagine in a system like this powerblows were easy to land from a simple hitconfirm like sf4 ... especially since there is no meter involved to release them .. imagine how spammable and repetitive and broken that would be ? you just cant compare the 2 ... as you said, in most cases ultras would need some meter burn and its pretty much a one chance per round (sometimes 2 ) ... but you can spit out powerblows as many times as you like ... regardless of weather you cancel them into a sidestep or take a gamble n release ..
if i were to compare powerblows to anything from sf4 it would probably be focus attacks ... although they dont absorb a hit .. the step back effect serves a similar purpose ... plus .. you wouldnt dare get in on someone charging out an FA for the risk of him releasing it .. and in most cases in turtle *cough* street fighter 4 .. they would go for the cancel and play it safe or even go for another FA threat from far away... what are the odds of getting a dry lvl2/lvl3 FA unless your opponent is a total moron? but then even in high level play .. you see it ... look up "ryan hart vs daigo" ... in 3 seperate occasions he managed to dry lvl3 FA DAIGO of all people... and even DAIGO dry lvl3ed YHCmochi in last years godsgarded 1st to 10 those are a few examples that come to mind ... so yes .. even though they are slow and unsafe .. they do work ... even at highlevel... because we ARE human ... just dont expect to see them in that dry sense all the time .. and just like FA you can cancel them ... and that in itself is a very threatening thing ... and just like you have limitations to lvl2 FA in a combo ( chunli's kikoken xx lvl2 FA comes to mind) .. putting powerblows in combos has that limitation ...
another similarity to FA is that lvl1 FA is pretty much like a smokeless noncharged powerblow ... where you cant do much after it ..
I hope this makes it a bit easier to grasp and if you have anymore questions feel free to ask
you can hold them by normal mid hold