Hayabusa: Tools of a Super Ninja
- Thread starter CyberEvil
- Start date
You forgot the poster-girl of grapplers: Tina. xD
MajesticBlue
Active Member
CB is kinda a waste for him........
Well, if you can get one the Shoho Izuna is some very easy, decent damage output for a guaranteed set-up. The problem is accessing the CB. My set-ups for it are typically quite predictable, and thus, I rarely ever go for them in matches.
MajesticBlue
Active Member
Mid punch.....mid punch....mid punch. He has no stuns.
I fought Rikuto yesterday (in person, of course) for a couple hours. Mostly I lost a lot with Hayabusa. Go into ninpo, get punched. Try to crush, get beaten out. Try to space, get rushed down. Try to go for CB when I got really desperate and he just held mid-punch. Hayabusa is fucked against good players. Period.
I'm currently trying to practice the Ongyoin free-teleport. Unfortunately it's not viable online with lag (barely anything with Ryu is. Ayane, Jane lee, kokoro, sarah, etc. seem to adapt best to lag, but that's another issue), but players always expect the 9throw/punch/kick teleports or 6P+K from the ongyoin, so when they rush you, it can catch them off-guard.
BTW, is Ryu's 9P no longer able to jump over floored opponents? I've been unable to do it thus far, so I'm inclined to think not. But it seems like such a wasteful move if it can't (literally serving no purpose the 9K can't, unless your opponent is actually fast enough to attempt a hold after seeing the animation before it lands and you can fake into an Izuna or something...). I've been replacing it with the Guillotine throw to tuck over floored opponents, but that animation time leaves me far too vulnerable.
BTW, is Ryu's 9P no longer able to jump over floored opponents? I've been unable to do it thus far, so I'm inclined to think not. But it seems like such a wasteful move if it can't (literally serving no purpose the 9K can't, unless your opponent is actually fast enough to attempt a hold after seeing the animation before it lands and you can fake into an Izuna or something...). I've been replacing it with the Guillotine throw to tuck over floored opponents, but that animation time leaves me far too vulnerable.
MajesticBlue
Active Member
Hayate is pretty bad I hear, but at least he can play Doa 4....Ryu can't even do that. So I might go with him or Ayane. I like to be loyal to my main but damn. The amount of work you have to do to win is unreal.
You don't even have enough advantage off of the parry teleport to get a fucking jab in. Trust me, until there is a patch, don't waste your time with it.
As for jumping over downed opponents, yes you can, but depending on how they tech the rising kick will play around the world and smack the shit out of you anyway. I have the timing down but at best I've guaranteed myself two back-turned hits and I can't get a deep enough stun to launch. Again, that's if they don't tech properly when they do the rising kick.
Hayate's not bad, imo. No Jan Lee, but not "bad."
I think a lot like Haybusa, people are just used to him being top tier and are having trouble adjusting. But that's just my insight.
Technically, you don't. But if if you parry the start of an attack string, can't your opponent be buffer-locked? I know it's not ideal, but I'm experimenting here. xD
As far as the 9P thing goes, I guess I'll have to try a bit harder. Even in practice mode when I floor the opponent right in front of my feet and they decide to read a novel before getting up, he seems collision locked on the current side. Meh. BACK TO THE TRAINING ROOM (later, unfortunately...)
In theory, you're right about the opponent getting stuck, but in practice, any decent player isn't mashing out a full string and will simply free-cancel the second they see you parry to kill any buffering right there. If they have back-facing moves, Hayabusa is even more fucked. It's just not a good option in high level play other than to give your opponent one more thing to think about.
cip
Member
Just as a side-note. I found that my flaw in executing the Shoho Izuna (Izuna from launch combo) was that I entered the circle to slowly. The trick seems to be that you need to input the circle quite fast and right before throw, so pretty late - and spamming circles isn't really helpful for that. If you do it this way, the timing window to press throw is actually quite reasonable with some practice. 
Soniti
New Member
Yeah, I spent a lot of time practicing the Shoho Izuna, hard as hell (am I alone when I say I keep a top 5 record of how many times I got it in a row?). It's worth mastering though, if you stick to your guns. qcfP+K has around a 3 frame window unholdable guarantee if you hit with qcbP, even with fastest stagger escape. Could be better if qcbP didn't have lousy priority though, sometimes it's better to do his while-standing 4KP to get it.
But I've tried several 360 controllers and they all have the same issue, the analog sticks miss one or two directional inputs on half and full circles... And if I do it too quickly, the D-pad does as well. Plus the D-pad seems to suck at registering diagonal inputs.
Given that Hayabusa's new motto is apparently "Give me perfection or give me death." I'm typically forced to accept the latter. He's slow, he lacks priority, his OH's are extremely choreographed and don't crush anything useful, his mix-up and stun-game is utterly predictable, if not easily interrupted. At least being predictable can be used to bait Izuna, but everyone is just interrupting him now... I feel like my most advantageous offensive position is when I'm laying on the floor nearby the opponent- unless they force a quick recovery. I mostly find myself either turtling, or desperately spamming high crushes that are either slow, unsafe on guard, or both. The only times I can really beat someone is if I read/guess their attacks so well that they get scared to rush attack, and I don't think anything requires more perfection than trying to defend against 4 points and grabs.
(Didn't intend to rant, but it came out anyway. Don't judge me. <_< )
But I've tried several 360 controllers and they all have the same issue, the analog sticks miss one or two directional inputs on half and full circles... And if I do it too quickly, the D-pad does as well. Plus the D-pad seems to suck at registering diagonal inputs.
Given that Hayabusa's new motto is apparently "Give me perfection or give me death." I'm typically forced to accept the latter. He's slow, he lacks priority, his OH's are extremely choreographed and don't crush anything useful, his mix-up and stun-game is utterly predictable, if not easily interrupted. At least being predictable can be used to bait Izuna, but everyone is just interrupting him now... I feel like my most advantageous offensive position is when I'm laying on the floor nearby the opponent- unless they force a quick recovery. I mostly find myself either turtling, or desperately spamming high crushes that are either slow, unsafe on guard, or both. The only times I can really beat someone is if I read/guess their attacks so well that they get scared to rush attack, and I don't think anything requires more perfection than trying to defend against 4 points and grabs.
(Didn't intend to rant, but it came out anyway. Don't judge me. <_< )
cip
Member
I'm so glad I got it on PS3. I like the D-pad so much more.
Yeah Hayabusa is very difficult, but according to the Producers interview, he might be the best character if mastered.
For safe attacks, I rely on guard breaks. Namely 1 H+K and all combos that end in it (4PK), as well as 66K, H+KKK, 412P and 4P+K occasionally. There are some other pretty safe attacks, suchs as 1PK and 11P and 6P+K, the last two canceled into Ninpo.
Reading the opponent, blocking a lot and punishing with throws or launchers, as well as mastering Ninpo seem to win me the most battles. Oh and just abusing Ninpos stuff when the opponent is downed and/or not reacting properly wins a lot, too.
Yeah Hayabusa is very difficult, but according to the Producers interview, he might be the best character if mastered.
For safe attacks, I rely on guard breaks. Namely 1 H+K and all combos that end in it (4PK), as well as 66K, H+KKK, 412P and 4P+K occasionally. There are some other pretty safe attacks, suchs as 1PK and 11P and 6P+K, the last two canceled into Ninpo.
Reading the opponent, blocking a lot and punishing with throws or launchers, as well as mastering Ninpo seem to win me the most battles. Oh and just abusing Ninpos stuff when the opponent is downed and/or not reacting properly wins a lot, too.
I'm pretty sucky at hard combos, but I just really don't find the Shoho that hard. Even online with shitty lag connections, it's one of my most commonly used moves (I probably do it once or twice per match, if I can get the spacing for it), and I definitely get it more times than I fail it. The air grab, Senko Izuna and ongyoin throw are the ones I still need to practice (air grab less than the other two).
I dunno about him being the "best" though, even if mastered. He has a lot of tricks, but the problem is that on a technical level, none of them are too impressive and can be easily intercepted/held/dodged etc. by a skilled player. So if you're dealing with "master-level" play, I just don't see Ryu topping the charts.
I've been getting closer with Ryu lately. It surprises people, and you can use that to your advantage, but unfortunately beyond that it's not too viable. He's just too damn slow and unsafe.
I dunno about him being the "best" though, even if mastered. He has a lot of tricks, but the problem is that on a technical level, none of them are too impressive and can be easily intercepted/held/dodged etc. by a skilled player. So if you're dealing with "master-level" play, I just don't see Ryu topping the charts.
I've been getting closer with Ryu lately. It surprises people, and you can use that to your advantage, but unfortunately beyond that it's not too viable. He's just too damn slow and unsafe.
cip
Member
Yeah the timing of the Ongyoin throw is kinda off-beat if you are used to Izunas. But it just looks sweet!
I've gotten better at the Shoho when I input the circle really late and fast. But I still can't rely on it and I badly want to, because it does so much damage. And there is nothing more frustrating then losing because you failed an Izuna
I've gotten better at the Shoho when I input the circle really late and fast. But I still can't rely on it and I badly want to, because it does so much damage. And there is nothing more frustrating then losing because you failed an Izuna
Yeah, I know how that feels (especially since the cat's in the bag technically after the first hit of the Shoho connects).Yeah the timing of the Ongyoin throw is kinda off-beat if you are used to Izunas. But it just looks sweet!
I've gotten better at the Shoho when I input the circle really late and fast. But I still can't rely on it and I badly want to, because it does so much damage. And there is nothing more frustrating then losing because you failed an Izuna
You mentioned preferring the PS3 D-pad. Do you seriously use the directional buttons for input rolls?
I think I fought you last night. Seem to remember your gamertag. If I'm right, I fought you right after figuring out a bunch of new Brad Wong shenanigans...and I don't think I was able to get a good read on how your Busa was.
Soniti
New Member
Hah, yeah I remember seeing your tag Cyber, and wondering if it was you, but I neglected to check. Honestly I dropped Hayabusa after a month, experimented with some others and found Mila to have a surprisingly nice, dependable looking tool set. It's weird switching characters after running around 2.5 yrs on busa, so I'll probably be playing like a rookie for awhile lol. Seeing as how I'm still here, and not in Mila's threads, I guess I still hope someone finds a reason for me to pick him back up again.
I get the most frustrated fighting Christie... I kind of create a safety zone against rush characters with back-step followed by 7K, or 4P+K, but her high/mid crushing side-step stance can ghost walk right through all of his dependable distance attacks... and then she can either do it a second time, cancel into a quick back step, or simply guard if she scares you into a distanced tracking attack (like 3H+K for Ryu), not only closing what distance you had left, but allowing her to attack without having to break your initial guard.
So I guess what I'm saying is... I hope he can do more than 2H+K and pray it's not countered/crushed. About two dozen frames too obvious and not even rewarding if it works.
Also frustrating to lose to Hayabusa, but that's just because I'm jealous and shocked I didn't read his every move.
I get the most frustrated fighting Christie... I kind of create a safety zone against rush characters with back-step followed by 7K, or 4P+K, but her high/mid crushing side-step stance can ghost walk right through all of his dependable distance attacks... and then she can either do it a second time, cancel into a quick back step, or simply guard if she scares you into a distanced tracking attack (like 3H+K for Ryu), not only closing what distance you had left, but allowing her to attack without having to break your initial guard.
So I guess what I'm saying is... I hope he can do more than 2H+K and pray it's not countered/crushed. About two dozen frames too obvious and not even rewarding if it works.
Also frustrating to lose to Hayabusa, but that's just because I'm jealous and shocked I didn't read his every move.