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Helena combo thread

Sora

Sora

Member
Omegan Eckhart said:
What are you using for whiff punishment? Whiff punishment requires moves that you can use to enter a space quickly or has more range than the whiffed attack.

:6::6::K: Doesn't stun on normal hit, second hit can be blocked.
:1::K::K: First hit doesn't stun on NH so the second hit can be blocked, the second hit doesn't cause knockdown on NH or CH.
:6::6::P: Causes knockdown on NH and CH.
:F+K: Causes knockdown on NH and CH.
BKO :2::K: Stuns and doesn't cause knockdown on NH or CH.
BKO :6::6::P: Causes launch on NH and CH.
:3::3::P: Causes stun and launches on the second hit on NH and CH.

I cannot think of any other moves that would be used for whiff punishment. P+K for whiff punishing? I cannot think of any situation that P+K would be used for that.
Click to expand...

P+K lunges forward as well as crushes highs. Any high whiffed will either result in NH or CH depending on when he/she was hit during the recovery or active frames of said whiffed attack (respectively). Knowing to confirm both NH and CH are equally important.
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Why waste time coming up with combo's for such uncommon situations? Just make CH combo's and when you land P+K on NH just start a CH combo after you land the first critical hit. I don't think I have ever seen anyone miss an attack my such little range that P+K was an option for whiff punishment lol
 
Sora

Sora

Member
I don't know, maybe because I'm new to DOA specifically so I'm being hard on myself for this. I see P+K going at least a 3/4ths to a full character's width, I see a good whiff punish.

And with Helena being on the slower side of the cast, she'll have trouble landing a CH against players who know what they're doing and not mashing buttons on negative frames. Unless a CH only move has specific properties that make it more possible to land as a CH (2K+H ducking under highs come to mind), I want safe/evasive NH options and combo starters too.
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Here are some good moves to start off your CH offensive:

:K::K::K: Has great range, comes out in 12 frames, offers a really good stun and can be delayed to bait people into counter attacking so you can catch them with the last hit for a CH.
:3::3::P: Crushes high's, moves her forward and come out in 13 frames, where as :P+K: comes out in 18 frames.
:2::2:/:8::8::K: Side steps and cause a great stun.
:6::6::K: Great for closing the gap and starting your stun game.

I respect your opinion but I have been playing DOA and Helena since the Dreamcast. I don't do anything you have listed and I have no issues landing CH what so ever. I have never found :P+K: to be useful for whiff punishment. I'm not saying everything I say should be taken as gospel but I do have a lot more experience than you do so if nothing else just consider what I am saying.

You want a great whiff punishment move? BKO :2::K: - This move has a ton more range than :P+K: can be used from a side step and leaves Helena in BKO where her best offence comes from.

And if you want a safe/effective NH option try :3::3::P:. This move crushes high's, comes out 5 frames faster and moves further forward than :P+K:. Not only that it has a 3in1 follow up that is completely safe from throws. :P+K: is unsafe if free cancelled and unsafe when finished as a string.

If you were on XBL I would happily take some take some time out to show you.
 
Sora

Sora

Member
All the tools you listed, I do use and abuse. :)

Sucks that we can't play each other right now.... hope to see you at a tournament somewhere maybe?
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Doug Nguyen said:
I dont know much about whiff punishment but does 4PPK then 66KPP work? 4PP has pretty good range.
Click to expand...
Which attack you use for whiff punishment depends on how much space is left between you and your opponent when they miss their attack.

:6::6::P: Is the most commonly used, although it's pay off is minimal unless you are good at dealing with your opponents wake up game. If not you lose momentum having to space away from their wake up kicks.
:4::P::P: This does cover a nice range but the first hit doesn't stun on NH so the follow up's may be blocked, leaving you open to throw punishment.
:6::6::K: This can work, but it is slow and is generally only good when trying to catch people off guard at range. Again the first hit doesn't stun on NH but you opponent has to respect the second low hit that does stun, and this is where your mind games come in.
BKO :2::K: You automatically eliminate high's, mid's if you want and this sweep has great range. Not only that but the stun is deep and leaves you in a great position to follow up.
:2::2:/:8::8::K: Without question her best whiff punisher, possibly her best move period. As with the previous move this sweep has great range, causes a deep stun and leaves you in BKO. Not only that instead of relying on you opponent to make a mistake and whiff their attack you can side step and force them to whiff their attack. 99% of moves do not track so this is extremely abusable.

You just gotta pick and choose the right move for the right situation, I'd be careful with :4::P::P: though unless you have conditioned your opponent to block.
 
ninjaguy446

ninjaguy446

Well-Known Member
Uh, hi there. Sorry for this nooby question, but what does BKO stand for? Is it an abbreviation for her Bokuho stance? And if this is in the wrong place I'll delete; I hadn't seen a Q&A thread.
 
Dallas1088

Dallas1088

Member
Jesus, Helena's combos aren't exactly what you would call "easy," are they? I can't imagine doing a lot of these online, you guys are heroes lol
 
Doug Nguyen

Doug Nguyen

Well-Known Member
Dallas1088 said:
Jesus, Helena's combos aren't exactly what you would call "easy," are they? I can't imagine doing a lot of these online, you guys are heroes lol
Click to expand...
Helena's combos are actually pretty easy to execute. Choosing the right one to do is harder for me.
 
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