Hopes for the future kokoro Doa5u

Vincent Rayne

Active Member
Kokoro is still good in this game. The only legitimate nerf would be her damage output, which is to be expected. Things simply just changed. You can't punish the 6P+K at -8 because you have to respect followups. You can't punish 2K at -15 because you have to respect followups.

She may have lost being able to stun with 33P and 6P+K. But, I think you guys have missed 236P+K > P. That string is good; it has Heichu, a good stun starter and extender, just as fast as 33P and 6P+K (i18), and is -4 on block. The new sabaki is amazing too; easy timing with a threshold stun. 3K4K being slowed down doesn't matter much either. She has mixups on all 3 levels. It's not like you're going to be abusing 3K4K a lot anyway. The bounds offer 66P+K, which gives a good amount of damage. Of course it's not the same as her SDS damage, but that ties into the damage output nerf. Options from Heichu aren't that bad either. They could be better, but they're no where near being sucky.

Stop complaining and pulling out the nerf card. Kokoro's still strong, she just changed. Just Adapt.
you forget that Heichu can be interrupted easily and sidestepped very easily. and the fact that they made more moves slower is very bad. that means it's easier to interrupt her strings. (which people already do.) and the P after 2K can also be dodged. Kokoro's is very predicable to anyone that knows her. she only has a couple of decent 50-50 options. one is the Heichu (considering you aren't interrupted) and maybe her 4T. oh and her 88_22P T is probably one of her best mind game options imo.
 

Bushido

Well-Known Member
you forget that Heichu can be interrupted easily and sidestepped very easily. and the fact that they made more moves slower is very bad. that means it's easier to interrupt her strings. (which people already do.) and the P after 2K can also be dodged. Kokoro's is very predicable to anyone that knows her. she only has a couple of decent 50-50 options. one is the Heichu (considering you aren't interrupted) and maybe her 4T. oh and her 88_22P T is probably one of her best mind game options imo.
I didn't forget Heichu and the other strike's disadvantages. However, all strong tools have disadvantages, no matter what character it is. Kokoro is no where near predictable. If you find her predictable, then it's most likely you're playing too telegraphed. 4T also isn't a good 50/50, if you can call it that. The reason being is you can block all of the strike followups, or just simply backdash out of it and make Kokoro whiff everything she tries to do. 4T doesn't give enough advantage to make it viable. It's not as easy to beat Kokoro as you're making it to be.
 

Vincent Rayne

Active Member
I didn't forget Heichu and the other strike's disadvantages. However, all strong tools have disadvantages, no matter what character it is. Kokoro is no where near predictable. If you find her predictable, then it's most likely you're playing too telegraphed. 4T also isn't a good 50/50, if you can call it that. The reason being is you can block all of the strike followups, or just simply backdash out of it and make Kokoro whiff everything she tries to do. 4T doesn't give enough advantage to make it viable. It's not as easy to beat Kokoro as you're making it to be.
i've been playing Kokoro since she came out. and i don't play her telegraphed at all. i face a lot of tourney players with her and they find her strings predicable. and i can't just cancel most of her strings to go into a grab because i'll get hit because the cancel is much too obvious. and her 4T is a viable 50/50. if they do anything but block then the can get hit by a free 66P. this move is only about 3 or maybe 5 frames (that's even pushing it) slower than the oppenent's recovery frames from 4T. and if they block then they are setup to a grab. if the turn around ducking then they can still get hit by a 66P. it seems clear that you underestimate how good (even if it's not that good compared to guaranteed options other characters get) 4T actually is. With Kokoro you have to work extra hard to win and she somewhat requires you to understand your opponents reactions very quickly. you have to be able to adapt to whomever you're facing within a match's time. that's why she has moves like 1T, 44P, 7P, 22_88P T. she used to be based on keeping up insane momentum and pressure with guard break a scary throw and breaking through guards with her string grabs. but that was all she had. her defense wasn't too crazy and it's a challenge to reverse the offensive back on the opponent. but now it's stupid difficult to do what Kokoro has been known for in the past two games because her momentum/pressure moves have been nerfed with every game that comes out. so now how do you go about playing Kokoro? all i can do is hope that Kokoro gets some of her early DOA4 tools back in upcoming patches. like 22_88P+K guardbreaking like it used to. i would like some close range guard break attack instead of that uber slow frame 314P.
 

phoenix1985gr

Active Member
I ve been playing kokoro since the game came out (but at a pretty basic - casual lvl) and i only heard today about this 88p T...
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
She doesn't really have a straight answer to step... that's my only real problem with her in 5. In 5U I haven't touched her though so I don't really know. I think 1K, 2H+K (not the follow ups), 3K or 3K2P (And all like versions) could've been a really good addition to her step game, even if 2H+K was dropped from the list.

If you want to keep trying to poke a tennis ball from the sidelines with a rapier (because that's what trying to play against someone who sidesteps correctly or spams crouching sidesteps) then you go right ahead, but unless she gets at least two straight step killers she's gunna have an awkward time playing DOA5(U).

Slowing down something like 3K4K is just kicking her while she's down.
 

phoenix1985gr

Active Member
Every character should have a stand alone semi fast mid that tracks... characters that have ss that lead to high crush attacks are just a pain to fight without them
 

Bushido

Well-Known Member
i've been playing Kokoro since she came out. and i don't play her telegraphed at all. i face a lot of tourney players with her and they find her strings predicable. and i can't just cancel most of her strings to go into a grab because i'll get hit because the cancel is much too obvious. and her 4T is a viable 50/50. if they do anything but block then the can get hit by a free 66P. this move is only about 3 or maybe 5 frames (that's even pushing it) slower than the oppenent's recovery frames from 4T. and if they block then they are setup to a grab. if the turn around ducking then they can still get hit by a 66P. it seems clear that you underestimate how good (even if it's not that good compared to guaranteed options other characters get) 4T actually is. With Kokoro you have to work extra hard to win and she somewhat requires you to understand your opponents reactions very quickly. you have to be able to adapt to whomever you're facing within a match's time. that's why she has moves like 1T, 44P, 7P, 22_88P T. she used to be based on keeping up insane momentum and pressure with guard break a scary throw and breaking through guards with her string grabs. but that was all she had. her defense wasn't too crazy and it's a challenge to reverse the offensive back on the opponent. but now it's stupid difficult to do what Kokoro has been known for in the past two games because her momentum/pressure moves have been nerfed with every game that comes out. so now how do you go about playing Kokoro? all i can do is hope that Kokoro gets some of her early DOA4 tools back in upcoming patches. like 22_88P+K guardbreaking like it used to. i would like some close range guard break attack instead of that uber slow frame 314P.
Alright, so I'm going by 5's 4T, but in 5U, you can't seem to backdash from BT the same way. So, yeah, 4T is a little more viable, but with 6P+K not stunning on NH, can't do much with it.
Imo, Kokoro is not hard to win with at all. She has a good damage output, a good stun game, great mix-ups, good options to open people up, safe, good speed, and good throw damage. Honestly, if you think it's hard to win and she takes 60% more work than the rest of the cast, something's not right.
214P isn't supposed to be used as close range guard break. I don't remember if it was the same as 5, but it's i18 now. As fast as 33P and 6P+K, so it's not uber slow like P+K. It's a guard break for footsies and keep-out.
 

Commmanda Panda

Active Member
Since the Kokoro sub forum pretty much gets barely any activity I thought I would start up a conversation.

Some of you may have seen the thread talking about changes that may come from the Marie Rose update. There is very little talk of Kokoro there so I was wondering, what do you guys think will be changed for Kokoro? She definitely is in need of improvements and which is the most important aspect of her game that needs to be addressed?
 

Bushido

Well-Known Member
Since the Kokoro sub forum pretty much gets barely any activity I thought I would start up a conversation.

Some of you may have seen the thread talking about changes that may come from the Marie Rose update. There is very little talk of Kokoro there so I was wondering, what do you guys think will be changed for Kokoro? She definitely is in need of improvements and which is the most important aspect of her game that needs to be addressed?
Okizeme and y'know...tracking.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Oki is a mechanical aspect.

But yea tracking is all she needs.

I [want] 3K4K to launch on threshold break and have the same stun it used to.

Also, if Mila's 2T gives a guaranteed hit/launch, Kokoro's 3T or whatever should too. Was this a glitch or was it purposefully done?
 

Bushido

Well-Known Member
Oki is a mechanical aspect.

But yea tracking is all she needs.

I [want] 3K4K to launch on threshold break and have the same stun it used to.

Also, if Mila's 2T gives a guaranteed hit/launch, Kokoro's 3T or whatever should too. Was this a glitch or was it purposefully done?
Well, Kokoro seems to be the worst right now, when back in the day she was pretty decent with oki. Oh well, not really needed. I think you meant 1T. Anyway, it going back to "neutral" was most likely purposely done.
 

GeomighT

Active Member
kokoro is definitely at her low point in the series , e-mann dropped her , no pro players use her its kinda sad really but easy changes can be made

1)44P needs to be 0 (11) 16 (3) 26
2)Vanilla 1T
3) switch SS P and 33P attack properties
3)SS P+K needs to be 52 (2) 26
3.)similar to Christie 4P+K cancel , give Kokoro the option to cancel her 4P+K with the option of an OH or parry
4.)her SS P+K should have an option to parry after the attack think of her 44P ( parry 1st , attack 2nd ) but in reverse attack 1st , parry after
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Well, Kokoro seems to be the worst right now, when back in the day she was pretty decent with oki. Oh well, not really needed. I think you meant 1T. Anyway, it going back to "neutral" was most likely purposely done.
See that's what I don't believe because there's no way they'd give Mila a free shot but take away both of Kokoro's. That's fucking dumb and ludicrous... but TN has been known to make questionable choices.

7K can track. I don't mind that.
 

Musourenka

Active Member
TN should make either 1P or 1K track.

Since Heichu P is damn near useless, give her a new move out of it. Heichu K, I say. A mid-kick option to complement the mid punch and low option. It should give a decent stun, and be safe on block (-3 or so).

And return 1T to its previous greatness.
 

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
I honestly want her to have AT LEAST 2 tracking lows or another tracking mid that is reliable. Christie literally walks right over Kokoro and Kokoor really can't do much and her low throw isn't has good as it was in vanilla (1T I think?) so Christie is just terrible for Kokoro.
 
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