DOA5U "I have no choice, but to fight!" Kasumi's Gameplay DOA5U discussion
- Thread starter J.D.E.
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I guess that wouldn't make a big difference. It would grant her some damage in more situations and require very good reactions to anticipate via counter-throw or ducking.
It actually would make a difference because that would mean that in a lot of her match ups, if they start mashing in that situation anticipating, reacting to the dash, then she would be able to deal with them no problem & would mean that they although it would take some good reaction timing.
Chapstick
Well-Known Member
I started using it thanks to panicitstylor's replays with a half decent amount of success (very flashy way to KO someone), but there are times they're in start up/active frames and I just whiff and get hit. Perhaps it is too great of a reward for someone just using any mid/high attack though, especially with the hiC damage scaling if they get caught while attacking which goes up to 102.
What do you guys do after her normal parries, if you choose to use them? I typically 6P6K to try to get a bounce but I've had that 6P get counter hit quite a few times.
What do you guys do after her normal parries, if you choose to use them? I typically 6P6K to try to get a bounce but I've had that 6P get counter hit quite a few times.
I usually block or sidestep (P) because most opponents do not react to the parries and continue mashing down their strings careless
. Sometimes, I used to jab too but you still can get hit by some unfortunate incoming attack. The normal teleport-parry is nothing more as a kind of "situation reset" for me.
Chapstick
Well-Known Member
My one friend uses Ayane and pretty often when I parry (as we know Ayane is unsafe on a lot of things) he uses BT 4K on reaction to it (7f slower than 6P...) and manages to counter hit me because it crushes it I guess. I really don't understand the hit boxes in this game. Kasumi's "mids" get crushed all the time as if they're highs.
I'm almost positive Kasumi's 4P is a true mid and won't get crushed most of the time. Don't quote me on it, though.
Kasumi is not at advantage after her parries, has nothing to do with hitboxes or crushes, you're not really at advantage. If your friend is doing the BT4K (I'd prefer BT6K for sitdown stun on that counter hit) then he's reacting to the parry specifically, because he knows when you're going to do it.
Also, Ayane's 6P will hi crush jabs at their initial frames, as well as BT4K (and BT4H+K).
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
This should only be happening if you are using her expert parry. Normal parry gives frame advantage depending on the poke you parried and obviously if people continue their strings they are taking BT damage.
They do, but it depends on the situation of certain characters. She has to be at +7 in order to get a guaranteed.
Oh... Lol yeah that would most definitely be nice
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Yes she is, players do not know how to capitalize on it but it is not smart for a character to attack after she parries. TN buffed it almost back to her parry the way what it was in DOA3/2u but it is not as good because she does not get guaranteed attacks every time she parries in DOA5/5u. Most of the time she has frame advantage, and even if she is at a disadvantage majority of the time characters are left BT and you have to take in account the 5 frames to turn around and the recovery of the attack that was parried, which is why she can be at negative frames at times from a parry and still blow up characters with a jab or a mid if they hit a button after them. She can be at -9 and still be good to hit buttons in some cases and CH her opponent if they attack.
In this case with Ayane it depends on what is being parried from her. Most of the attacks that are parried from her should be getting Ayane blown up if she hits a button even if it is a crush attack. Then again it depends on what players are doing. Even with attacks that put Ayane front facing if Kasumi parries she has the advantage, all except a jab.
What is it that you are not understanding about them? The only mid (poking-wise) that she has that will get crushed is 6P and even still it depends on where you are using the attack to get it crushed. Helena, Gen Fu, and Leifang are about the only characters that will fluently crush it while in her face. Other characters like Brad Wong or Momiji, for example, have to time crushing while in her face, they are subject to get hit most of the time.
Also Chapstick, if you are playing your friend primarily online then that the issue as to why you are getting beat out when you shouldn't. Most things players do are not legit and it's not their fault but more-so just being online. Even when you think or feel the connect is clear, it is not.
Chapstick
Well-Known Member
I was going to mention this was online but forgot. >>'
The hitboxes don't make sense to me because we have highs, mids, and lows but there seem to be unmentioned hit levels in between those making them not so clear cut. Something like Kasumi's 66K is called a "mid" and hits people crouching but is so close to a high hit level it whiffs during several frames of Alpha's idle stance.
The hitboxes don't make sense to me because we have highs, mids, and lows but there seem to be unmentioned hit levels in between those making them not so clear cut. Something like Kasumi's 66K is called a "mid" and hits people crouching but is so close to a high hit level it whiffs during several frames of Alpha's idle stance.
This is not necessarily true (partially). Ayane can take advantage of Kasumi's parries (the stationary and dash) if she wants to rely on it as some way of keeping Ayane in check. If you rely on Kasumi's parries, Ayane can use PP6P3/PP6P9 or 6P3/6P9 and escape everything from the dash (only thing that can catch 6P3 is a throw follow up after the dash).
If Kasumi is using 3H/9H to simply get behind Ayane, both 6P3 and 6P9 avoids every follow up. And 6P9 just lets Ayane run away and Kasumi can't do anything about it because Ayane can block in time before your strikes would connect. Ayane can do the same thing to Hayabusa's parry whenever he transitions into his Ninpo stance (even at his 33P+K4 that would leave him neutral) , 6P3 and 6P9 blow it up.
This is something I thoroughly tested in preparation for SCR because Shade Swifteye attended, and I was ready to blow the parry up if he used it at all (he actually did not use her parries at all in our sets in top 8).
If she's parrying something like 66KK4 or just being reckless (3P's or misuage of it and other strikes), sure Ayane pays for it.
Also, keep in mind I wasn't referring to actual frame advantage in regards to Kasumi's parries. I meant in reference of actually being rewarded anything really worth it (actual guarantees that are not always existing afterward).
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Don't worry about it too much since it is online. Still look up at what's going on so that you know what you can do in a better playing environment. The issues with some hitboxes are being fixed, this is for all characters though. Kasumi's 66K hitbox is concentrated in one area and does not extend much (vertically or horizontally) which is why she gets crushed at times by certain attacks. When it reaches the buffering of 66 and the animation are doing the most part. Alpha's idle stance is annoying but that is nothing you have to worry about in actual pay, no one is going to stand there and use that just to hopefully avoid one or two attacks.
Yeah some hitboxes do not make any sense in this game, 'tis why they are fixing some of them.
@iHajinShinobi
You couldn't have possibly tested it thoroughly because if you did, you would know that after 6P9 from Ayane is at -20 when Kasumi parries with her 3H, you are eating 66K for free while you are BT. If you hit button after it to attempt crushing her to prevent a mix up, good game. Unfortunately I am not a scrub (not saying you said that) but I can see what's going on the screen and that flip of her's is beyond telegraphed. After she keeps getting stunned for doing do it, you'll stop. Even if you tried her hajin roll to get away you run the risk of getting hit/thrown.
With 6P3, Kasumi picks up +1 and she can use 3H and still throw you so she doesn't have to switch up her parries for either defensive response. If you extend the roll then you put Kasumi at +18 which guarantees 66K while you are BT, if you short stop the roll you are in range of being thrown. You could hit a button, be my guess, but like I mentioned previously, it is not wise for characters to do that once she parries. You try to mix up your rolls, Kasumi can still move in on Ayane with no worries because she has frame advantage and she won't be crushed using the proper attacks after it.
All of that applies to the other string variants to the flip and hajin roll. Kasumi and Ryu are two different characters and their parries function differently as far as their effect after it. That's great she can stop him after he parries, but she is not doing that to Kasumi. Ayane still has to deal with her, you actually make it worse trying to avoid her, that flip is not happening, I am sorry. If you flip in the air against good players in the neutral game you will be getting taxed for that or at least you should. That flip is a parlor trick and nothing to rely on to get away from Kasumi's parry. The hajin roll route seems to be her best one if you feel the need to "escape". Still, it's just a parlor trick in this scenario.
You are better off just standing there if she parries those options because she is only at +4 and you don't run the risk of getting caught with something trying to run away from her.
If that is what you meant by saying what you said about her parries, excuse me for not having my cryptic reading skills up today lol. Yes, I am sure everyone here is aware that nothing guaranteed always come after her parries. The point I made, again, is that she does get frame advantage after her parries, and it is worth it rather than taking string delay mix up 24/7.
I can block your 66K after I do 6P9, @Allan Paris. 66K is only going to hit me if I try attacking. When I test something, I test to ensure it is viable. I'm not going to try crushing you, the point is to put myself at a distance after you've tried setting me up with your parries. I know what the numbers are and it doesn't make any difference in reference to fubu flip when I can simply block your strikes in time.
Ayane's roll isn't any good here, and I never even talk about making use of her roll outside of critical threshold or counter hit from 3KK and K variants. I don't understand why you even brought it up when I didn't say anything about it.
Also, Ayane's fubu flip is not a parlor trick or gimmick lol. You and Shade underestimate this character's tools so much. Ayane being at a large negative after she flips doesn't mean anything, compare fubu to previous DOA titles and maybe it was, considering the flip and recovery were abysmal. In this game (and DOA5 Vanilla), the flip is fast and so is it's recovery.
It is also not telegraphed by any means when a player demonstrates it's proper use (aka myself). It is telegraphed by bad players with bad habits and over reliance on a gimmicky playstyle. And I am far from being a bad player, sir.
Fubu has multiple uses in this game, one of them being a spacing and escape tool. Explaining what fubu is used for is another subject, however, in this case for this matter, it is a spacing and escape tool. I'm sure you can see what's going on the screen, as would any other good player. But it doesn't make any difference when you cannot punish this flip as explained, and just generally as spacing at the right ranges. It's not happening.
I am also aware that Kasumi and Hayabusa's ninpo transitions/parries are completely different, I wasn't comparing the two. I said I can do similar things to both and block your strikes.
At this point I already know you and I will just have to agree to disagree because you're dead set on believing this is a parlor trick and one in general.
Ayane's roll isn't any good here, and I never even talk about making use of her roll outside of critical threshold or counter hit from 3KK and K variants. I don't understand why you even brought it up when I didn't say anything about it.
Also, Ayane's fubu flip is not a parlor trick or gimmick lol. You and Shade underestimate this character's tools so much. Ayane being at a large negative after she flips doesn't mean anything, compare fubu to previous DOA titles and maybe it was, considering the flip and recovery were abysmal. In this game (and DOA5 Vanilla), the flip is fast and so is it's recovery.
It is also not telegraphed by any means when a player demonstrates it's proper use (aka myself). It is telegraphed by bad players with bad habits and over reliance on a gimmicky playstyle. And I am far from being a bad player, sir.
Fubu has multiple uses in this game, one of them being a spacing and escape tool. Explaining what fubu is used for is another subject, however, in this case for this matter, it is a spacing and escape tool. I'm sure you can see what's going on the screen, as would any other good player. But it doesn't make any difference when you cannot punish this flip as explained, and just generally as spacing at the right ranges. It's not happening.
I am also aware that Kasumi and Hayabusa's ninpo transitions/parries are completely different, I wasn't comparing the two. I said I can do similar things to both and block your strikes.
At this point I already know you and I will just have to agree to disagree because you're dead set on believing this is a parlor trick and one in general.
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Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
So you are saying I can't hit you with you being at -20, Ok, buddy. I guess I don't know how to do that move and block accordingly, I will keep practicing. I do not underestimate her, I know she's a good character.
Do not you read what you type? I mentioned the roll from 6P because you did after she parries, you clearly spoke on it in your first sentence in your second paragraph. I am too lazy to quote right now lol.
Alright, though.
So the rest of guys know so it's not lost in all of this, Kasumi does pick up frame advantage after her parries. You have to go in and look at how much and what can be done in the situations you decide to parry.
"Ayane's roll isn't any good here, and I never even talk about making use of her roll outside of critical threshold or counter hit from 3KK and K variants."
lolz for shit and gigs, "If Kasumi is using 3H/9H to simply get behind Ayane, both 6P3 and 6P9 avoids every follow up."
uhh ok, I am done. haha
Do not you read what you type? I mentioned the roll from 6P because you did after she parries, you clearly spoke on it in your first sentence in your second paragraph. I am too lazy to quote right now lol.
Alright, though.
So the rest of guys know so it's not lost in all of this, Kasumi does pick up frame advantage after her parries. You have to go in and look at how much and what can be done in the situations you decide to parry.
"Ayane's roll isn't any good here, and I never even talk about making use of her roll outside of critical threshold or counter hit from 3KK and K variants."
lolz for shit and gigs, "If Kasumi is using 3H/9H to simply get behind Ayane, both 6P3 and 6P9 avoids every follow up."
uhh ok, I am done. haha