IPL Helena Breakdown

OSTCarmine

Active Member
I don't think anybody who is really attached to their character will be leaving them behind. I'm sticking with Helena regardless, but if I have a chance to get her fixed before launch I'm gonna take it.
indeed. TN has up to this point listened to most of what the forums here brought up... and MASTER has not been heard of in quite a while so the chances of improvements are high. people need to stop being so negative imo. fsd has seen quite an influx of new users lately, and they need to know what these forums are all about. making doa the best fighter out there
 

DrDogg

Well-Known Member
I'll play Helena in casuals at Season's Beatings. If I do well, I'll lead off with her in the tournament. I can still win with Helena, I've already done this in DOA5... it's just that you have to work really hard playing the stun game and you have to hope your opponent guesses wrong a lot. You can still get 50% off of a hi counter BKO throw with environment damage.

The top players can't play Helena like they did in DOA4, and I'm not talking about the forced tech stuff. A few strats still work, but you basically can't play as reckless anymore. 1PP is your new friend, P+K is still reliable just not the end all be all crush that it used to be, and BKO isn't as worthwhile as a crush anymore. Not to mention a lot of characters can hit Helena out of BKO duck with downward striking mid attacks.

She's not the evasion machine she used to be, she's not as safe as some of the other stance characters (hello Rig), she relies almost entirely on the stun game, and she can't do much of anything from a distance. But she's still Helena, and I will mess you up with her if you're not careful.
 

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
1PP is your new friend, P+K is still reliable just not the end all be all crush that it used to be, and BKO isn't as worthwhile as a crush anymore. Not to mention a lot of characters can hit Helena out of BKO duck with downward striking mid attacks.

So :P+K: is a crush again? I hope I am understanding that right. I know you cannot talk about the new build... but... is Helena... better? You don't have to give details but can you say whether she is the smouldering turd she was last time you saw her?
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
I'll play Helena in casuals at Season's Beatings. If I do well, I'll lead off with her in the tournament. I can still win with Helena, I've already done this in DOA5... it's just that you have to work really hard playing the stun game and you have to hope your opponent guesses wrong a lot. You can still get 50% off of a hi counter BKO throw with environment damage.

The top players can't play Helena like they did in DOA4, and I'm not talking about the forced tech stuff. A few strats still work, but you basically can't play as reckless anymore. 1PP is your new friend, P+K is still reliable just not the end all be all crush that it used to be, and BKO isn't as worthwhile as a crush anymore. Not to mention a lot of characters can hit Helena out of BKO duck with downward striking mid attacks.

She's not the evasion machine she used to be, she's not as safe as some of the other stance characters (hello Rig), she relies almost entirely on the stun game, and she can't do much of anything from a distance. But she's still Helena, and I will mess you up with her if you're not careful.

So what actually makes her "technical", any new tools to play with? Is she safer now?
 

Einzelkind

Active Member
I just don't get why Shimbori wrote that he wants the players to use her BKO instead of p+k and then proceeds to nerf her stance. I will definitely give her a chance, but if she plays too much like her DOA4 self just without the ground game (sadly it looks like she does), I probably won't main her, because I want a character that can use the new mechanics. The 3-in1s sounded like a nice idea,though. Drdogg, it would be nice, if you could tell us, if she got any other new tools, wether they're good or bad, or some new juggle options (except for the lack of pp2kp). Right now it sounds like they just took stuff away from her.
 

Paulina

Active Member
So :P+K: is a crush again? I hope I am understanding that right. I know you cannot talk about the new build... but... is Helena... better? You don't have to give details but can you say whether she is the smouldering turd she was last time you saw her?
Yeah, elaboration please. =<
 

Codemaster92163

Well-Known Member
DrDogg say it crushes high now, I'm definitely happy about that!

Hearing that gives me much hope that they will continually improve her until she's at least decent. If they were willing to change that, just consider the fact that they'll be making more improvements as time goes on, pre-release or otherwise.
 

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Hearing that gives me much hope that they will continually improve her until she's at least decent. If they were willing to change that, just consider the fact that they'll be making more improvements as time goes on, pre-release or otherwise.
I would accept Helena how she is now as long as they made her safe again.
 

DrDogg

Well-Known Member
I would like to see Helena as a viable character more than most. I don't mind playing a low tier character (I play ZWEI in SC5), but in a game like DOA5, if you have to play the stun game AND you're low tier, that's just too much for me. Unless something magical is discovered, I doubt you'll see me play her much in tournament after Season's Beatings (where people won't know how to defend against her).

While I can't give specifics, I would have played the pre-final version of Helena in a tournament (although it would've been an uphill battle). As it stands now, I just don't understand how she's supposed to be played against anyone with knowledge of her frame data. Not when characters like Busa have a jumping guard break mid-string that leaves him at +9, and a safe sit-down stun that leads to a free launch.
 

chocogerman777

Well-Known Member
I would like to see Helena as a viable character more than most. I don't mind playing a low tier character (I play ZWEI in SC5), but in a game like DOA5, if you have to play the stun game AND you're low tier, that's just too much for me. Unless something magical is discovered, I doubt you'll see me play her much in tournament after Season's Beatings (where people won't know how to defend against her).

While I can't give specifics, I would have played the pre-final version of Helena in a tournament (although it would've been an uphill battle). As it stands now, I just don't understand how she's supposed to be played against anyone with knowledge of her frame data. Not when characters like Busa have a jumping guard break mid-string that leaves him at +9, and a safe sit-down stun that leads to a free launch.

:(
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
....and down the rollercoaster ride we go guys!

antoine_dodson.large_.jpg
 

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
The one thing I was looking forward to was her 3in1's having frame advantage but it tuns out they are all unsafe except when done as a stand alone attack. So the move we saw in the video that starts with :3::P: then does the 3in1 attack is unsafe, the only safe one is :3::P+K:(although the input might have changed). Other characters are at +frames when the transition into stance but Helena is isn't even at neutral just completely unsafe.

I have no fucking clue what TN is thinking it just doesn't make any sense to me at all...
 

OSTCarmine

Active Member
Hide your kids, Hide your wife and your husband cause their nerfing everybody out here.
you guys are so dumb, you are really dumb, for real

ps, somebody should hijack this joke and go into a full internet-meme jamboree, see how long we can keep it up before Wah gets pissed lol... i would do it myself but my meme interests relate mostly to pokemon and hentai stuff
 
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