La Mariposa's Needed Improvements

[Goro Hazuki]

"- Allow her to CB in 3 hits.

Credit to Arnell Long & DrDogg

I like the thread and enthusiasm towards Lisa. I just tried her out and played with her quite a bit. I just wanted to say, don't worry, she's actually really good in this game. I know I don't have the "reputation" yet, but she definitely has a lot of options and tricks up her sleeve. I read through your post, and only left the one point that may need improvement. Her CB is too slow. You can reach the threshold ok, but connecting the slow cb is tricky.
Other than that, she is quick and relatively safer. Yes, from BT she's vulnerable, but she can do various tricks to throw people off. I really liked her this time around (as opposed to feeling "meh" about her in DOA4), and I know I will be playing with her a lot more now.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

I like the thread and enthusiasm towards Lisa. I just tried her out and played with her quite a bit. I just wanted to say, don't worry, she's actually really good in this game. I know I don't have the "reputation" yet, but she definitely has a lot of options and tricks up her sleeve. I read through your post, and only left the one point that may need improvement. Her CB is too slow. You can reach the threshold ok, but connecting the slow cb is tricky.
Other than that, she is quick and relatively safer. Yes, from BT she's vulnerable, but she can do various tricks to throw people off. I really liked her this time around (as opposed to feeling "meh" about her in DOA4), and I know I will be playing with her a lot more now.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

GGs today Goro.. It was a fun session!

 

[Goro Hazuki]

Indeed they were. Christie is a monster! I can't wait for the release.

 

[DrDogg]

I like the thread and enthusiasm towards Lisa. I just tried her out and played with her quite a bit. I just wanted to say, don't worry, she's actually really good in this game. I know I don't have the "reputation" yet, but she definitely has a lot of options and tricks up her sleeve. I read through your post, and only left the one point that may need improvement. Her CB is too slow. You can reach the threshold ok, but connecting the slow cb is tricky.
Other than that, she is quick and relatively safer. Yes, from BT she's vulnerable, but she can do various tricks to throw people off. I really liked her this time around (as opposed to feeling "meh" about her in DOA4), and I know I will be playing with her a lot more now.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

Can you be more specific about this? Rabies also thinks Lisa is good, but failed to provide any specifics. I believe she's low tier and have provided a multitude of reasons why, but no one is explaining why they think she's good.

For the record, she's more unsafe than most other characters and her CB is the same speed as everyone else (with a few exceptions).

 

[MasterHavik]

Can you be more specific about this? Rabies also thinks Lisa is good, but failed to provide any specifics. I believe she's low tier and have provided a multitude of reasons why, but no one is explaining why they think she's good.

For the record, she's more unsafe than most other characters and her CB is the same speed as everyone else (with a few exceptions).

dude...i think it's because she has connections with Beyonce.

Anyways Mr.Dogg sir. I think people say she's good because Rabies went to town on that kasumi player and 3-0'd him clean. And they feel if you play her right she is pretty good. I mean you know play under control, not just throw out shit and hope it hits. But that's my guess.

 

[Game Over]

Can you be more specific about this? Rabies also thinks Lisa is good, but failed to provide any specifics. I believe she's low tier and have provided a multitude of reasons why, but no one is explaining why they think she's good.

For the record, she's more unsafe than most other characters and her CB is the same speed as everyone else (with a few exceptions).

It could be because Lisa's style can trip up an unaware opponent with "parlor tricks", ala Brad Wong, and so, people might overestimate her ability to compete at a high level. Granted, I'm a fan of the character myself, and enjoy playing her in casuals, but FACT OF THE MATTER is a character is not good if a character struggles against many main tools of other characters and/or is given moves/tools that are easily answered by the majority of other characters.

With that said, being low-tier doesn't mean a character can't win at a high level. It just means the player has to work harder to get that win.

dude...i think it's because she has connections with Beyonce.

Anyways Mr.Dogg sir. I think people say she's good because Rabies went to town on that kasumi player and 3-0'd him clean. And they feel if you play her right she is pretty good. I mean you know play under control, not just throw out shit and hope it hits. But that's my guess.

Note that Rabies's win over Shade, not to discredit Rabies or anything, was mainly due to Shade's apparent lack of experience in that matchup. It was noted a number of time during commentary that Shade was NOT playing like himself in that match, and came across as flustered against basic tools at Lisa's disposal.

 

[Rubedood]

Man, they better have improved her since the last build. I'd really like to try her out, she looks fun.

 

[MasterHavik]

Note that Rabies's win over Shade, not to discredit Rabies or anything, was mainly due to Shade's apparent lack of experience in that matchup. It was noted a number of time during commentary that Shade was NOT playing like himself in that match, and came across as flustered against basic tools at Lisa's disposal.

True, but the way Rabies was playing made Lisa look good, which is way people were calling Lisa good.

 

[DrDogg]

True, but the way Rabies was playing made Lisa look good, which is way people were calling Lisa good.

He did a bunch of jumping offensive holds that Shade kept getting hit by... >_>

 

[DR2K]

He did a bunch of jumping offensive holds that Shade kept getting hit by... >_>

Shade was probably mesmerized by her long gorgous animations.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

Isnt that a mix up with the mid kick though? Im a bit noob probably especially against lisa since i didnt played her much, of against her either, but what would be the best way to stop that? if you duck and she does the kick shes gonna hit you right? (i remember the commentators said you have to duck in this situation)

 

[DrDogg]

Isnt that a mix up with the mid kick though? Im a bit noob probably especially against lisa since i didnt played her much, of against her either, but what would be the best way to stop that? if you duck and she does the kick shes gonna hit you right? (i remember the commentators said you have to duck in this situation)

In the GVN build you can just step both options. But the kick has a very distinct animation compared to the offensive hold. It's not hard to differentiate the two in my opinion.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

ok so its reactable you mean... I didnt know that (and probably only reactable on offline sessions and not doa4 online) and i though since throws track her flying offensive ones should too... Thanks for the reply

 

[MasterHavik]

He did a bunch of jumping offensive holds that Shade kept getting hit by... >_>

I know right? but it was working which translates into good for some people. Crazy isn't it?

 

[Game Over]

ok so its reactable you mean... I didnt know that (and probably only reactable on offline sessions and not doa4 online) and i though since throws track her flying offensive ones should too... Thanks for the reply

I would assume that the majority of airborne attacks do not track. Also, once you know what to look for with Lisa, it's not hard to differentiate between her moves. She is not a particularly fast character, and I'm sure (along with many of her moves being linear), that is part of why she is considered (at this point) to be low-tier.

I know right? but it was working which translates into good for some people. Crazy isn't it?

That just comes from people not knowing what makes a character good. Someone might get beaten by a simple , mixup, but that doesn't all of a sudden make the character doing the mixup a higher-tier character. While it's fun to see a low-tier character win, winning matches doesn't change the reasons why a low-tier character is low-tier.

 

[Batcommander]

Sigh, why didn't TN make jumping OH's nonsidesteppable?!?!?! At least for Lisa, damn! That way you could have an actual 50/50 with jumping moves instead of just having a universal answer to it(sidestep lol). Blargh!

They should've taken a note from El Blaze in this regard.

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

Sigh, why didn't TN make jumping OH's nonsidesteppable?!?!?! At least for Lisa, damn! That way you could have an actual 50/50 with jumping moves instead of just having a universal answer to it(sidestep lol). Blargh!

They should've taken a note from El Blaze in this regard.

From what I understand, isn't El Blaze also not really good either? I'm beginning to think it's not the characters, it's the style, maybe it just doesn't transfer well into fighting games or the people who make these characters suck at doing it. Couldn't you just make their animations faster, safer, and not ALL linear and have a really good character? I feel like Lisa wouldn't be as gimmicky if her gimmicks were WAY fast and hard to react to, gave her some advantage and guaranteed situations.

Woah woah woah. Just throwing this in - Blaze is good in VF, he's mid tier.

I know nothing VF tiers and such, I heard that El Blaze was also not as good in terms of a Lucha Libre style. It seems in most games Lucha libre-type styles are shit on compared to other martial arts. In fact, you saying mid tier, to me, doesn't help at all. Give me a high tier or even top tier Lucha libre character in a fighting game. There's probably none right?

KOF maybe the exception to this, and i think that was only for XI(could be wrong).

Do you remember how good this character was compared to the other fighters? I'm just wondering because it really does seem like Lucha/capoeira/mixed up styles get the shaft.

 

[BLACKSTAR]

From what I understand, isn't El Blaze also not really good either?

Woah woah woah. Just throwing this in - Blaze is good in VF, he's mid tier.

 

[Batcommander]

From what I understand, isn't El Blaze also not really good either? I'm beginning to think it's not the characters, it's the style, maybe it just doesn't transfer well into fighting games or the people who make these characters suck at doing it. Couldn't you just make their animations faster, safer, and not ALL linear and have a really good character? I feel like Lisa wouldn't be as gimmicky if her gimmicks were WAY fast and hard to react to, gave her some advantage and guaranteed situations.

Yes, i have noticed that in most fighting games, the luchador style is usually low tier as shit. KOF maybe the exception to this, and i think that was only for XI(could be wrong).

I can't believe TN would let Lisa have no mixup from her jumping moves, that's just ridiculous. When they announced the new sidestep system I thought it would be a shoe in to have tracking jumping OH's, but i guess not.

Also, handspring needs to hit opponents like Blaze, don't understand why it has no hit properties, it's way too easy to see coming in actual gameplay.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Yes, i have noticed that in most fighting games, the luchador style is usually low tier as shit. KOF maybe the exception to this, and i think that was only for XI(could be wrong).

I can't believe TN would let Lisa have no mixup from her jumping moves, that's just ridiculous. When they announced the new sidestep system I thought it would be a shoe in to have tracking jumping OH's, but i guess not.

Also, handspring needs to hit opponents like Blaze, don't understand why it has no hit properties, it's way too easy to see coming in actual gameplay.

She DOES have a mixup though .. and a MEAN one at that, particularly if you were in critical stun..

Not only can you Choose to either Hit or Throw .. you now have a 3rd option of actually Canceling the jumpforward to another quick one .. and you have the same 2 options from there!

you can bait that shit all day ..

also as I am aware Throws (including that one ) track in the game ..

not to mention that her Air-throw does mean damage and can be done from a lower height now..