Official Dead or Alive Xtreme Thread

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
I'm not in defence of censorship to get that of the way with, buuuuut... I never used the fan since it was just a sixaxis thing DOA5 had and I never noticed any major difference with the gels and oils and thus never used them either. Senran Kagura still has its stripping so I don't see upmalfunction gone and VR mode is still a thing so it's whatever.

I just hope this isn't just X3 with Misaki cuz that'd be worse than I feared.
 

otnesse

Well-Known Member
I'm not in defence of censorship to get that of the way with, buuuuut... I never used the fan since it was just a sixaxis thing DOA5 had and I never noticed any major difference with the gels and oils and thus never used them either. Senran Kagura still has its stripping so I don't see upmalfunction gone and VR mode is still a thing so it's whatever.

I just hope this isn't just X3 with Misaki cuz that'd be worse than I feared.

Yeah, no kidding. I want all the girls in, at least all the girls available by the time the game is released, while the rest could enter as DLC. I mean, for goodness sakes, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, of ALL games, has, what? Over a hundred stages AND nearly 70 playable characters (and that's not even counting either the echo fighters OR the DLC). If even the Switch can handle THAT many characters, and on a 30 FPS system no less, then DOAX3S certainly could handle all of that as well. Not to mention I want ACTUAL character interactions between the girls, something that DOAXVV at least had and what past entries to the Xtreme series had. Oh, and have them actually be in English, at least English subtitles if not actually voiced in English. And I also really fail to see why they should make it Japan-exclusive. Last I checked, it was DOAP, a port of DOAX2 for the PSP, that practically SAVED Dead or Alive from bankruptcy worldwide.
 

Jadeinchains

Well-Known Member
Hmm so I'm gonna guess stuff like the fans being removed is due to Sony's brand new censorship policies, It's a shame but...it's on sony, not TN so we'll just have to deal with that.

with that said lol...I never used the lotions or the fans ( preferred things to be natural and nothing affecting how jiggle physics worked etc ) so the lotions and fan being removed isn't that big of a deal to me personally. I just hope that that's all that is removed and everything else is safe!

okay so at launch Misaki and another new character are going to be in the game! :D Cool, Hopefully we'll see them soon. I imagine that once the game releases they'll begin dlc support of characters etc, Misaki being added as dlc to Fortune is cool too, Wonder if they are going to support fortune to? It's maybe just a one time thing for fortune but who knows.

obviously more characters at launch would have been cool but honestly the moment they revealed Scarlet I was like "Even if Misaki is the only new character this is a day one buy." :p Plus there's the other character too. I just hope that we start to see new stuff revealed soon, and that no swimsuits etc are removed and it really was just lotion and fan.

Edit: !!Oh and how could I forget, I really hope that they announce the Asian version has English subs!
 

Juihau

Well-Known Member
I mean, for goodness sakes, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, of ALL games, has, what? Over a hundred stages AND nearly 70 playable characters (and that's not even counting either the echo fighters OR the DLC). If even the Switch can handle THAT many characters, and on a 30 FPS system no less, then DOAX3S certainly could handle all of that as well.
...Smash Ultimate runs at 60 fps, though. Still, common sense would indicate that the character count is a question purely of how much effort they're willing to put into it, not what the hardware can handle.
 

otnesse

Well-Known Member
...Smash Ultimate runs at 60 fps, though. Still, common sense would indicate that the character count is a question purely of how much effort they're willing to put into it, not what the hardware can handle.

Going by the fact that they even CREATED Luna, Tamaki, Fiona, and whoever NAG is supposed to be at all, not to mention have added Leifang and are possibly going to add in Christie, Mila, and Rachel to DOAXVV if the in-game data is to be believed, it's pretty obvious that they are VERY willing to put effort into it, since, you know, the guys who made DOAXVV are the same guys who are making this game.

And honestly, I'm not even sure why Switch needed to be 30fps, anyway. Not like the Switch can't handle 60fps.

I personally could care less about the lotions and/or the fan stuff, since I prefer natural stuff myself (now, if they add in the spa aspect like DOAXVV did, I could at least use that as an excuse to do the lotions). But if they gyp the entire Soft Engine for the PS4, I'm definitely going to be very angry, because let's face it, DOAX3's physics for the soft engine are actually very realistic, as Billy D. of OneAngryGamer pointed out (and whatever you might think of his politics, he's also skilled at programming engines, and has more than his fair share of experience in that area of expertise, so he definitely deserves to be listened to in THAT respect), certainly a lot more realistic than the really sad engine that was DOA6's engine which was a rehash of the Dynasty Warriors 9 engine.
 

just_me

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
...Smash Ultimate runs at 60 fps, though. Still, common sense would indicate that the character count is a question purely of how much effort they're willing to put into it, not what the hardware can handle.

Yeah, this is mainly a budget thing… Smash will sell 8-10 million copies, this will sell… 200-300k at best I'd imagine.

Also adding a new girl with a swimsuit collection is more effort than it seems since every existing swimsuit has to be remodeled for the new body, and every new swimsuit has to be remodeled for every existing body. The might have a clever tool to do that (e.g. create assets for the base body then have it automatically transformed into the others, which should yield good results for anyone but Marie and maybe Honoka) People might have noticed that the file site of X3 more than doubled since release even though there wasn't even that much DLC in terms of new models, but it seems that basically every new model required 9 new models and 9 texture sets for each of those models (not 100% sure if every girl ahd a unique body, but I actually think they did… like Ayane was slightly different from Nyo even though similar measurements)
 

otnesse

Well-Known Member
Yeah, this is mainly a budget thing… Smash will sell 8-10 million copies, this will sell… 200-300k at best I'd imagine.

Also adding a new girl with a swimsuit collection is more effort than it seems since every existing swimsuit has to be remodeled for the new body, and every new swimsuit has to be remodeled for every existing body. The might have a clever tool to do that (e.g. create assets for the base body then have it automatically transformed into the others, which should yield good results for anyone but Marie and maybe Honoka) People might have noticed that the file site of X3 more than doubled since release even though there wasn't even that much DLC in terms of new models, but it seems that basically every new model required 9 new models and 9 texture sets for each of those models (not 100% sure if every girl ahd a unique body, but I actually think they did… like Ayane was slightly different from Nyo even though similar measurements)

So? Dead or Alive Paradise didn't exactly have stellar sales, even adding in one new girl, yet last I checked, they still kept all the girls, even gave the new girl in question, Rio, her own wardrobe, including tailoring them to fit onto her. If they could do it for DOAP, which BTW was on the PSP and a port for DOAX2, they most certainly can do all of that with DOAX3S, budget or not (heck, if anything, this has a higher budget than DOA5LR, and even THAT still added in more characters without cutting any out).
 

Juihau

Well-Known Member
People might have noticed that the file site of X3 more than doubled since release even though there wasn't even that much DLC in terms of new models, but it seems that basically every new model required 9 new models and 9 texture sets for each of those models (not 100% sure if every girl ahd a unique body, but I actually think they did… like Ayane was slightly different from Nyo even though similar measurements)
It's been a while, but I recall when reading about mods for LR, most of the girls were grouped into a few categories where their bodies were identical. For example, I think Ayane and Tina used the same body model, so their costumes could be swapped with no cleanup required and look perfect. Hitomi and Leifang also have the same body, but Leifang's neck is slightly wider, so that caused some issues. This is just me talking from memory, though, and I can't remember exactly what characters were grouped in what category, but I'd imagine X3 works basically the same way.
So? Dead or Alive Paradise didn't exactly have stellar sales, even adding in one new girl, yet last I checked, they still kept all the girls, even gave the new girl in question, Rio, her own wardrobe, including tailoring them to fit onto her. If they could do it for DOAP, which BTW was on the PSP and a port for DOAX2, they most certainly can do all of that with DOAX3S, budget or not (heck, if anything, this has a higher budget than DOA5LR, and even THAT still added in more characters without cutting any out).
So if it's not hardware restrictions... And it's not budgetary concerns... Then it's just that they don't want to put that much effort into it, no? XVV is a gacha game that probably makes way more money than X3 ever did and almost certainly more than the rerelease will, so it kinda makes sense they'd be willing to put in way more effort to add stuff to that game than X3.
 

just_me

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
It's been a while, but I recall when reading about mods for LR, most of the girls were grouped into a few categories where their bodies were identical.

Yes, I know that holds true for LR. X3 had new models and I think they were all unique (maybe Kasumi and Kokoro shared a model and Nyo and Helena). Not sure if anyone ever ripped the X3 assets… I guess people that regularly consume SFM content might know :p

Either way, adding a new girl is more effort than adding the character itself. Even if you just have to replicate across 5 models and a subset of textures.

So? Dead or Alive Paradise didn't exactly have stellar sales, even adding in one new girl, yet last I checked, they still kept all the girls, even gave the new girl in question, Rio, her own wardrobe, including tailoring them to fit onto her. If they could do it for DOAP, which BTW was on the PSP and a port for DOAX2, they most certainly can do all of that with DOAX3S, budget or not (heck, if anything, this has a higher budget than DOA5LR, and even THAT still added in more characters without cutting any out).

And it might very well be that DoAP did not make them any money…

I also fail to see how this comparison holds up… Scarlet does not remove characters from X3, it adds 2. If they add characters that are not already in VV they also need to create a lot of assets from scratch, which is – as pointed out above – more work than it seems at first glance.

And having “all the girls” is obviously way less effort in the DoAP days then it is now… it was 9 characters back then and it's 20(+1) characters now (if you include the VV girls and NiCO)
So it absolutely does not follow, that if they could do it back then, they can do it now. They market for these games did not grow and the costs to make games with some visual fidelity did not go down…

I also fail to see why you think that Scarlet has more budget than LR… it seems they are adding very little, so that contradicts that notion.
The market for DoAX games is small, especially with an Asia only release, while the target audience for LR was definitely larger.


Though I'm honestly not quite sure why they are releasing Scarlet on PS4, if they have to take out features from X3 and the Switch version, but I guess they had plans for the project before Sony's policy change (do people call them Soyny… someone probably does lol )

Seems they primarily want to grab the Switch market and the PS4 version is an afterthought anyway, might have been better to just restart selling paid DLC for X3… and just give it a patch that changes the title to Scarlet in the menu (and adds proper Pro support *cough* )
 

Jadeinchains

Well-Known Member
Okay so I just looked at the website with translation ( although it's google translate so not perfect by any means ) and yeah so the things that are removed are just the lotions and the two fans, I don't mind that and I imagine/hope that's all that's been removed since they didn't mention anything else so Imagine all the swimsuits, malfunctions and scenes are safe.

It did say that both versions don't have save share though? I'm guessing that means sharing saves between consoles rather than transferring saves since obviously I'm hoping we can transfer our DOAX3 save files to DOAX3S.

I know it's hardly been any time since the announcement of the game but I really hope we see some info on it soon ( famitsu scans etc ) like new suits etc.

There's a menu on the website that you can't click on yet? It just says "coming soon" so I wonder what that is? It also says "coming soon" on the new character so we should be seeing them soon...depending on what your definition of "soon" is. :p
 

otnesse

Well-Known Member
It's been a while, but I recall when reading about mods for LR, most of the girls were grouped into a few categories where their bodies were identical. For example, I think Ayane and Tina used the same body model, so their costumes could be swapped with no cleanup required and look perfect. Hitomi and Leifang also have the same body, but Leifang's neck is slightly wider, so that caused some issues. This is just me talking from memory, though, and I can't remember exactly what characters were grouped in what category, but I'd imagine X3 works basically the same way.

So if it's not hardware restrictions... And it's not budgetary concerns... Then it's just that they don't want to put that much effort into it, no? XVV is a gacha game that probably makes way more money than X3 ever did and almost certainly more than the rerelease will, so it kinda makes sense they'd be willing to put in way more effort to add stuff to that game than X3.

Probably the only ones with actual unique bodies were Rachel, Marie Rose (obviously) and possibly Honoka, maybe also Naotora Ii and Mai Shiranui. The others pretty much were reused assets. Don't know about DOAX3, although the fact that there are people doing XPS renderings of DOAX3 models might suggest its the same.

As far as not wanting to put much effort into it, here's my idea of effort: If I were a programmer, and I didn't want to do any effort for DOAX3, I certainly would not want to do as much effort for DOAXVV, regardless of whether it's a gacha game. In fact, if I didn't want to do effort, the quality of DOAXVV would be even WORSE than DOAX3 precisely because I can't be bothered to do any effort at all. That's the issue: They clearly had enough of a desire for effort to even do DOAXVV at all. If I were a programmer and I had enough of a desire of effort to pull off DOAXVV, I'd actually have as much of a desire to do DOAX3/DOAX3S if not even MORESO than DOAXVV.

Yes, I know that holds true for LR. X3 had new models and I think they were all unique (maybe Kasumi and Kokoro shared a model and Nyo and Helena). Not sure if anyone ever ripped the X3 assets… I guess people that regularly consume SFM content might know :p

Either way, adding a new girl is more effort than adding the character itself. Even if you just have to replicate across 5 models and a subset of textures.



And it might very well be that DoAP did not make them any money…

I also fail to see how this comparison holds up… Scarlet does not remove characters from X3, it adds 2. If they add characters that are not already in VV they also need to create a lot of assets from scratch, which is – as pointed out above – more work than it seems at first glance.

And having “all the girls” is obviously way less effort in the DoAP days then it is now… it was 9 characters back then and it's 20(+1) characters now (if you include the VV girls and NiCO)
So it absolutely does not follow, that if they could do it back then, they can do it now. They market for these games did not grow and the costs to make games with some visual fidelity did not go down…

I also fail to see why you think that Scarlet has more budget than LR… it seems they are adding very little, so that contradicts that notion.
The market for DoAX games is small, especially with an Asia only release, while the target audience for LR was definitely larger.


Though I'm honestly not quite sure why they are releasing Scarlet on PS4, if they have to take out features from X3 and the Switch version, but I guess they had plans for the project before Sony's policy change (do people call them Soyny… someone probably does lol )

Seems they primarily want to grab the Switch market and the PS4 version is an afterthought anyway, might have been better to just restart selling paid DLC for X3… and just give it a patch that changes the title to Scarlet in the menu (and adds proper Pro support *cough* )

Oh, trust me, DOAP made enough money to ensure DOA continued to exist (and that was despite selling at most .2 million copies worldwide according to this sales chart: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/42625/dead-or-alive-paradise/ ). According to Yasushi Nakamura, the art director for Dead or Alive Paradise, one of the reasons they even made the game was an effort to restart development of the series, broaden appeals. Considering we got Dead or Alive Dimensions as well as the DOA5 Games, not to mention DOAX3/VV/3S and DOA6 as a direct result of DOAP, it's more than a little obvious that it made them money (if it didn't, they would have declared bankruptcy by that point). Don't believe that claim? Here's the article:

*http://www.videogamer.com/psp/doa_p...f_fans_masturbate_to_doa_thats_a_success.html

And fine, I'll give you DOAX3S's budget maybe not being much bigger than DOA5LR, but the original DOAX3 definitely had a bigger budget since it was in development for much longer. DOA5LR entered development at least around the time of TGS 2014, maybe a little bit earlier, since that was when it was first announced. DOAX3's development, even before it was announced in August of 2015 during DOAFest, had gotten a trademark around May of 2014, and may have even entered development as early as 2013, which can be seen in the following sources:

*http://tay.kotaku.com/another-delay-announced-for-dead-or-alive-xtreme-beach-1500862250
*http://kotetsu.game-waza.net/game/%E3%82%AD%E3%82%BF%E3%81%8Bdoax3-%20%E3%82%B3%E3%82%A8%E3%83%86%E3%82%AF%E3%81%8C%E5%95%86%E6%A8%99%E3%80%8Cxtreme%20b

And quite frankly, even if we WERE to ignore DOAP, there's still the fact that DOA5LR still managed to add content in without removing characters (and let's face it, when the likes of Luna, Tamaki, Leifang, and Fiona at the very least are not in DOAX3S despite being in DOAXVV, they are by definition removed. Same goes for the cut six in the original DOAX3). Heck, DOA5LR managed to add in two characters (four of we count Mai Shiranui and Naotora Ii), not to mention added tag teams for Marie Rose, Phase 4, and Nyotengu as well as tag interactions and tag throws, and that would definitely require a LOT of assets to do. Heck, it even added loads of DLC outfits, and believe me, those would also logically take a LOT of time and money to make sure they fit well with the girls, just as much as with DOAX3. And that one was most recent.
 
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hardseppo

Well-Known Member
All the DLC will come to X3 as well as we know by now, the question is: will they remove the features in X3 that are not present in XS?

It's all very weird...
 

belts

Well-Known Member
All the DLC will come to X3 as well as we know by now, the question is: will they remove the features in X3 that are not present in XS?

It's all very weird...
This is very weird indeed. If that is true that all the X3S content will come to Fortune as DLC, and Fortune has the stuff that is censored in X3S, are they going to retroactively censor Fortune with an update?
 

Jadeinchains

Well-Known Member
All the DLC will come to X3 as well as we know by now, the question is: will they remove the features in X3 that are not present in XS?

It's all very weird...

Are you sure though? They mentioned Misaki being added to Fortune but they didn't mention anything else being added like the other new character or future dlc ( plus all the other new stuff they add to Scarlet like outfits etc )
 

otnesse

Well-Known Member
This is very weird indeed. If that is true that all the X3S content will come to Fortune as DLC, and Fortune has the stuff that is censored in X3S, are they going to retroactively censor Fortune with an update?

They'd better not. That comes across as being the type of crap Joseph Stalin was infamous for, heck, George Lucas's edits to the Star Wars trilogy even.
 

belts

Well-Known Member
On the bright side this whole situation has got me playing VV again. I figure that until we know more about what's going on with the PS4 version that I can at least enjoy the currently supported game on an uncensored platform.

I haven't played it in so long that it took me about 20 minutes of getting through all the new intro/event scenes and update pages before I could even play the game... lol

Right off the bat I won Misaki's white SSR dress. :D
 
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