A good read that seems fitting for this topic:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/
"Pedestal Mentality": How it Hurts the FGC
- Thread starter Awesmic
- Start date
oh fuck off lmfao!
So I found this article from this Street Fighter character named Balrog, who apparently actually exists in real life and is with Public Relations or something.. I dunno. I don't keep up with that stuff.
Anyway, he had this really uplifting interview with his experience with this tournament in Japan dedicated to that one hot chick from "Boy Meets World" (didn't know Japan had fans of Topanga, much less that sitcom) that hit home.
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/
Anyway, he had this really uplifting interview with his experience with this tournament in Japan dedicated to that one hot chick from "Boy Meets World" (didn't know Japan had fans of Topanga, much less that sitcom) that hit home.
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/
Cake
Well-Known Member
Just as a small off-topic, one simple thing I think could be done, is tidying up the character forums... because often I see bits of information about your character spread over a couple of threads. I think it'd be nice if the info was all there tidied up and easy to read in one place instead of having to have several tabs open.
I'd gladly do that, but I'm a newbie and am not really fit for the job, I guess.
I guess even small steps like those would be helpful :x
I'd gladly do that, but I'm a newbie and am not really fit for the job, I guess.
I guess even small steps like those would be helpful :x
The OP need to start being updated in character forms where info is easy to get access to and read. Having to read through a bunch of post (which most usually end up being useless) can make things pretty difficult.
Xhominid The Demon Within
Well-Known Member
I kinda have to laugh at all this massive level of "we need to change" movement when one of the main Youtuber's I follow(Event Status) always talked about this exact issue for months...
I'm not saying I shouldn't be glad it's finally happening and people are waking the hell up on this immature behavior, but I always have to shake my head in the end as people have been acting like it's only now that this has become a problem.
It's not like this is the first time we started talking about this.
Xhominid The Demon Within
Well-Known Member
Did I say it was here? I meant it towards the MAIN FGC, Capcom in regards to the article.
That was obvious.
Xhominid The Demon Within
Well-Known Member
Then I don't know why it took so long for this movement and realization to finally occur.
This is what I was saying earlier. And it's also why I push myself as hard as I do with the character I play. There isn't a single person that knows me, that actually understands what's more important to me while I play and continue to grow.
I care about the quality of my play performance, that's it.
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d3v
Well-Known Member
LOL at EventStatus having done "many insightful videos about the FGC".
I dunno how anyone can take the opinions of someone who's openly shit on people trying to help out the community in the past. All the while using it and negative opinions of it to rack up YouTube views.
I dunno how anyone can take the opinions of someone who's openly shit on people trying to help out the community in the past. All the while using it and negative opinions of it to rack up YouTube views.
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Xhominid The Demon Within
Well-Known Member
Lots of players have tried this before, pay to play lessons. It's another way of saying "I'm only doing it for the money".
d3v
Well-Known Member
Then you realize that he's all talk and that he could care even less to actually come out to events. Heck he even started a fight with one of the guys who helps out at GVN Summer Jam in Philly (BlackShinobi) despite the fact that said person had actually done more for the community than event has ever done resulting in people figuring out that event couldn't even care less to actually attend community events in Philly.
Xhominid The Demon Within
Well-Known Member
But I looked in that exact same thread, BlackShinobi was the one who started the whole thing and Event mainly wanted to talk to the guy(did it aggressively, but whatever works), but why did Black want him to head into the event to talk? There was no reason to call someone out, but then tell them to head somewhere else.
And what did BlackShinobi actually do to help the community? All I heard was that he shoots pictures, how is that helping the community? And besides, you don't NEED to be in a community to make sure it heads into the right place, that's ridiculous.
Until BlackShinobi actually HELPS(and I actually hear of him bettering the community), bringing him up means nothing to me. But so we don't do this song and dance again, I'll refer to BlackPreon instead.
d3v
Well-Known Member
So going out of your way to help teach players how to gt better at the games they play both online and offline plus gives the community the much needed positive coverage (that he talks about in his thread) = not helping the community. Right. Sorry I never got the memo. I'll be sure to tell everyone else that they should just make YouTube videos accentuating negative things so that they can get more hits since that's obviously the best way to help the community.
The thing to note is that there is drama and a bit of hostility in any community. The problem is that (as BlackShinobi stated in his thread on SRK), is that the negative always seems to be played up. When the community does something positive, we barely get a mention on a couple of smaller sites. When it's something bad, it's up everywhere on Kotaku and what have you. Guys like event aren't really helping much in this regard.
Another thing to remember is that this is a community that is built around rivalries. East Coast vs. West Coast, NorCal vs SoCal, Japan vs. USA, etc. So there's a lot of pride involved as well. Also, people aren't as willing to share outside of their communities because they don't want their tech exposed. There's an old acronym for this that goes STSFN - Save That Stuff* For Nationals. It's something that everyone practices, even the Japanese to a degree (remember how d44BAS dominated CvS2 since he knew strong tech from the beta tests of the game, tech that any other folks would have reported to Capcom for balancing).
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A few excerpts from the PR Balrog article that caught my eye and are worth noting (these comments on the article).
I can relate, when I used to play competitive Yugioh in SoCal back in 2012 and main decked Six Samurai. I was a top Six Sams player locally (multiple top 3's and 1st place tops at two different venues). My build was all about explosive speed and aggression (triple dojo+gateway was basically game unless I misplayed, which was very rare). People picking up the deck would ask me for tips on what cards I could recommend for the deck and what builds are optimal. Builds are of preference, but certain cards do not click with this deck (like Dark Hole). It is designed to overextend "at the right moment" so you can soft lock opponents out of setting up before your resources are exhausted (will happen fast in Six Sams).
When I tried to explain to a certain individual (someone playing Dino Rabbit and is very good) why Dark Hole does not fit in Six Sams, he simply said "You play Dark Hole in the deck. It's a staple and blows your opponent's field up and allows you to set up". Claims he's mained Six Sams before, so, it had me think a bit "you've played the deck, but you don't understand why this card clogs the deck and hurts it?".
The Dark Hole takes up a spot that would essentially be protection for your Shi En, Enishi, Naturia Beast, etc. As a Six Sams player, if your field is blown up, you lose. The deck does not have reliable come back factor. I sat down with this player and talked with him for about 20 minutes. Thoroughly explaining to him, by card example (visually), why Dark Hole hurts the deck. His only answer in response was "it's a come back card and it wins you games if you play it right".
I've never seen a Six Sam player make a come back with a Dark Hole. I discussed this with people on Duelistgroundz.com and all of them said the same things I said and had the same conclusions. I had to play hundreds of matches to figure out a balanced build to combat everything in my area (main and side deck). To figure out what the deck is really about WITHOUT asking anyone how to build the deck or what I should run in it. I studied a lot of YCS and Regional play as well to see what cards players are utilizing, and figure out why they do, why it works, what the advantages and disadvantages were.
Sometimes people actually do not want to listen to anyone, they are either too arrogant or refuse to pay attention. Or just does what works. The same kind of attitude is often found online in DOA and on the forums as well.
Yup, I see a lot of this here at FSD. Admittedly I've done this a few times, but only because certain people have demonstrated that mentality. I haven't gone out of my way to call someone that just for the sake of doing it.
I see this in DOA online ALL THE TIME. Even others that claim to be in competition with me as the best Ayane (lol@that) do this so often out of jealously. I am not in competition with anyone for some self-indulged title. I can say I am the strongest Ayane thus far because I am proving myself so far.
My intentions isn't to be "The only great Ayane player" offline. My goal is to prove Ayane is a very strong character at a high level and in tournament play. And to prove I have what it takes to be a great player. If you want to be recognized for something along those lines, get out there "where it matters" and prove your worth. Online is online, and that's it.
This.
Ever since I actually had more time to play DOA this year, all I've been doing is taking my time learning the game, studying it, from more than just a couple of angles. I read many different articles from different SF players and community contributors, and watch their play. From older titles like SFII, Alpha, 3rd Strike, SSF4. Depicting the meta from each. I've been doing the same thing lately with DOA5U (sometimes in DOA5+, seeing things that weren't demonstrated much before vanilla became obsolete).
Building up my fundamentals and work on my reactions, exploring my character tools and ways they can be viably innovative, especially in all my match ups. Deeply studying the Move Details feature, messing around with hit and hurt boxes. No one probably doesn't even realize that Ayane's 6P (6P3/6P9) is amazing versus Hayabusa if he decides to transition to his ninpo stance at any time. I think Brute is probably the only player that understands why when I mentioned it in the tier list thread.
You have characters like Helena and Christie (for example) being overplayed so much only because a select few have been playing so well with them in tournament play. Majority using these characters just copy what they see, not understanding why the setups and strategies are solid and then fall apart when someone can fight it, or defend it.
Other players are beginning to try replicating my movement style with Ayane, but are often counter hit or hit out of it in general because they have no literal control over the character movement and do not pay attention to detail (spacing, the environement and where they actually stand on the stage). It takes a lot more than just trying to mimick someone. I've learned that the hard way.
Every time I or someone else mentions something about Ayane tech in her forums, I take it and study. See if it actually works or if it doesn't. If it does, then I try to figure out why, then I expand on my or their findings and come back with results to share. I'll even go further as to share what else I found along the way and what option selects I'll use (or prefer).
Once I saw a japanese player using the 64T > 3KK set up, I took it to the lab, studied it and expanded on it.
I've thoroughly tested the original set up numerous times, in the lab and in the matches, then expanded on it. Test it in matches again, made it stronger. Tested it again, made it stronger again. Then I realized the vortex this has involving 3KK can work WITHOUT the 64T throw. Just with neutral K, PPK, BTPK and 3KK in critical stun threshold on their own. Breaking the set up down, piece by piece.
I've made this set up a lot stronger, and a lot scarier recently to point that I have only been held out of it 3 times out of about 80+ matches.
This is what I always play for;
Left #3 out because DOA doesn't have Anti-airs. Showing good sportsmanship offline is something I always do at tournaments. Smiling more often, on stream at least, I'll work on that lol.
I can relate, when I used to play competitive Yugioh in SoCal back in 2012 and main decked Six Samurai. I was a top Six Sams player locally (multiple top 3's and 1st place tops at two different venues). My build was all about explosive speed and aggression (triple dojo+gateway was basically game unless I misplayed, which was very rare). People picking up the deck would ask me for tips on what cards I could recommend for the deck and what builds are optimal. Builds are of preference, but certain cards do not click with this deck (like Dark Hole). It is designed to overextend "at the right moment" so you can soft lock opponents out of setting up before your resources are exhausted (will happen fast in Six Sams).
When I tried to explain to a certain individual (someone playing Dino Rabbit and is very good) why Dark Hole does not fit in Six Sams, he simply said "You play Dark Hole in the deck. It's a staple and blows your opponent's field up and allows you to set up". Claims he's mained Six Sams before, so, it had me think a bit "you've played the deck, but you don't understand why this card clogs the deck and hurts it?".
The Dark Hole takes up a spot that would essentially be protection for your Shi En, Enishi, Naturia Beast, etc. As a Six Sams player, if your field is blown up, you lose. The deck does not have reliable come back factor. I sat down with this player and talked with him for about 20 minutes. Thoroughly explaining to him, by card example (visually), why Dark Hole hurts the deck. His only answer in response was "it's a come back card and it wins you games if you play it right".
I've never seen a Six Sam player make a come back with a Dark Hole. I discussed this with people on Duelistgroundz.com and all of them said the same things I said and had the same conclusions. I had to play hundreds of matches to figure out a balanced build to combat everything in my area (main and side deck). To figure out what the deck is really about WITHOUT asking anyone how to build the deck or what I should run in it. I studied a lot of YCS and Regional play as well to see what cards players are utilizing, and figure out why they do, why it works, what the advantages and disadvantages were.
Sometimes people actually do not want to listen to anyone, they are either too arrogant or refuse to pay attention. Or just does what works. The same kind of attitude is often found online in DOA and on the forums as well.
Yup, I see a lot of this here at FSD. Admittedly I've done this a few times, but only because certain people have demonstrated that mentality. I haven't gone out of my way to call someone that just for the sake of doing it.
I see this in DOA online ALL THE TIME. Even others that claim to be in competition with me as the best Ayane (lol@that) do this so often out of jealously. I am not in competition with anyone for some self-indulged title. I can say I am the strongest Ayane thus far because I am proving myself so far.
My intentions isn't to be "The only great Ayane player" offline. My goal is to prove Ayane is a very strong character at a high level and in tournament play. And to prove I have what it takes to be a great player. If you want to be recognized for something along those lines, get out there "where it matters" and prove your worth. Online is online, and that's it.
This.
Ever since I actually had more time to play DOA this year, all I've been doing is taking my time learning the game, studying it, from more than just a couple of angles. I read many different articles from different SF players and community contributors, and watch their play. From older titles like SFII, Alpha, 3rd Strike, SSF4. Depicting the meta from each. I've been doing the same thing lately with DOA5U (sometimes in DOA5+, seeing things that weren't demonstrated much before vanilla became obsolete).
Building up my fundamentals and work on my reactions, exploring my character tools and ways they can be viably innovative, especially in all my match ups. Deeply studying the Move Details feature, messing around with hit and hurt boxes. No one probably doesn't even realize that Ayane's 6P (6P3/6P9) is amazing versus Hayabusa if he decides to transition to his ninpo stance at any time. I think Brute is probably the only player that understands why when I mentioned it in the tier list thread.
You have characters like Helena and Christie (for example) being overplayed so much only because a select few have been playing so well with them in tournament play. Majority using these characters just copy what they see, not understanding why the setups and strategies are solid and then fall apart when someone can fight it, or defend it.
Other players are beginning to try replicating my movement style with Ayane, but are often counter hit or hit out of it in general because they have no literal control over the character movement and do not pay attention to detail (spacing, the environement and where they actually stand on the stage). It takes a lot more than just trying to mimick someone. I've learned that the hard way.
Every time I or someone else mentions something about Ayane tech in her forums, I take it and study. See if it actually works or if it doesn't. If it does, then I try to figure out why, then I expand on my or their findings and come back with results to share. I'll even go further as to share what else I found along the way and what option selects I'll use (or prefer).
Once I saw a japanese player using the 64T > 3KK set up, I took it to the lab, studied it and expanded on it.
I've thoroughly tested the original set up numerous times, in the lab and in the matches, then expanded on it. Test it in matches again, made it stronger. Tested it again, made it stronger again. Then I realized the vortex this has involving 3KK can work WITHOUT the 64T throw. Just with neutral K, PPK, BTPK and 3KK in critical stun threshold on their own. Breaking the set up down, piece by piece.
I've made this set up a lot stronger, and a lot scarier recently to point that I have only been held out of it 3 times out of about 80+ matches.
This is what I always play for;
Left #3 out because DOA doesn't have Anti-airs. Showing good sportsmanship offline is something I always do at tournaments. Smiling more often, on stream at least, I'll work on that lol.
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Xhominid The Demon Within
Well-Known Member
Here's the thing, when did I turn this into hating him for hating BlackShinobi? I stated exactly what I heard and what I seen from that topic and speaking my own mind based on that alone. And where is this stuff you are talking about? Is there any threads that covers his helping hand? Any videos? Because hell, I've seen DOA players be far more helpful than he has(no, not you guys, NORMAL DOA players). I want proof, not words.
Because when the negative happens, it's freaking stupid, and I don't mean that in the simple ways, I mean literally having videos of them acting like complete dumbasses while trying to act "professional". It's things like out and out collusion and wasting everyone's time by playing a horrible ass match just because. Just because it happens in every community doesn't suddenly make it right or just, so I don't see how one person pointing out the flaws isn't helping?(Especially since the solution IS in your hands)
And for a video game community, THAT SHIT ISN'T HEALTHY FOR ANYONE. That's the exact reason why these stupid console wars have escalated into the extreme level nonsense it became. Why the Capcom FGC pretty much despises every other fighting game on the market that isn't Capcom and vice versa, etc.
This isn't real-life Sports, this is a video game tourney and you want to have as many people as possible rep the game and keep the tourney scene alive for as long as possible, so how are you supposed to do that when you keep everything away from everyone else?
Keeping tech away until tournies can only go so far till you reach a UMvC3 situation where people play the same damn characters and no one wants to experiment lest they be laughed out of the building for daring to deviate and actually do something different because.
Now, this has gone off topic for long enough, I will not talk about Event Status nor BlackShinobi any longer, this is about fixing the mentality of "Everyone for themselves", no more, no less.