A good read that seems fitting for this topic:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/
Here is something that might be related:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/
Eduaro "EG|PR Balrog" Perez dropped some knowledge on Twitter recently from his time spent in Japan playing in the Topanga World League.
Perez specifically noted the difference in styles from the U.S. to Japan, saying that he feels players over there are more concerned about their image, and that's why more emphasis is placed on playing perfect.
PR Balrog also said that one of the reason Japanese players have an advantage over the U.S. scene is they're geared more heavily towards helping one another — even if it's to their own short term detriment.
Hit the break for the rundown of Perez's thoughts on his trip and the scene overseas.
PR Balrog: Things learned in Japan.
1. Be more patient
2. Train for tournament quality not just results
3. ANTI AIR!
4. Get rid of bad habits
5. Smile
BT|Angelic: Can you explain tournament quality vs. results? Serious question. Sounds like something I need to study.
PR Balrog: It's hard to explain. We are used to just going and playing in tournaments. We don't really study the games that we play.
If something is good we just apply it, and if it works we just keep going for it without understanding, and we just say it's good.
When they find something cheap here [in Japan] they study it to see why, etc. Playing perfect here is more important than just being a pro.
BT|Angelic: Do you think its because they love the game and play for fun? I think we play to win and go for what gives us easier wins.
PR Balrog: Yes, sadly because we see the money on top of everything.
BT|Angelic: Since they actually like it and want to have fun, they would rather be perfect while playing it even if it means losing early on.
PR Balrog: The problem is that there are pro players here too of course, so that's not really the truth that they play for fun.
Their image is more important and that's why they want to play perfect.
BT|Angelic: Do you think they have a strong ego or pride when it comes to this game? I mean in terms of pride/ego outwards.
PR Balrog: I don't know exactly, but the strive to be the best here is just too good, but everyone helps each other even if they will get beat.
BT|Angelic: I really respect that, does this happen even in private settings? I assume they are still mostly using arcades for their scene.
PR Balrog: They use both, but if they can't beat something, the next day they will have new tech to beat it, and they'll share it too.
BE|KaneBlueRiver: The study comes from the competition drive though, there are very few Marvel players here that are like this.
PR Balrog: Because UMvC3 is not that popular here but Marvel is the perfect sign of bad things in the U.S. No [one helps] each other.
Foxisquick: I don’t know how you can deal with the community. You say some key stuff about Balrog and the community’s response makes me sad.
PR Balrog: People will hate and never see the truth because most of them will never be in my position, so they will talk whatever they can.
MarkMan: When I spent time [in Japan], they told me about how they train. It's very different from rest of world. I think that's why they have an advantage. They train (hundreds of fights), take a break/eat, then go at it again. And help each other.
PR Balrog: But the greatest key word that you said there is help each other something the U.S. lacks sadly.
Here is something that might be related:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/
I kinda have to laugh at all this massive level of "we need to change" movement when one of the main Youtuber's I follow(Event Status) always talked about this exact issue for months...
I'm not saying I shouldn't be glad it's finally happening and people are waking the hell up on this immature behavior, but I always have to shake my head in the end as people have been acting like it's only now that this has become a problem.
It's not like this is the first time we started talking about this.
Did I say it was here? I meant it towards the MAIN FGC, Capcom in regards to the article.
That was obvious.
A good read that seems fitting for this topic:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/
Hey man, no one's perfect, but I find him a hell of a lot more insightful than PR-Balrog, who didn't he try to make people pay him for lessons?LOL at EventStatus having done "many insightful videos about the FGC".
I dunno how anyone can take the opinions of someone who's openly shit on people trying to help out the community in the past. All the while using it and negative opinions of it to rack up YouTube views.
Then you realize that he's all talk and that he could care even less to actually come out to events. Heck he even started a fight with one of the guys who helps out at GVN Summer Jam in Philly (BlackShinobi) despite the fact that said person had actually done more for the community than event has ever done resulting in people figuring out that event couldn't even care less to actually attend community events in Philly.Hey man, no one's perfect, but I find him a hell of a lot more insightful than PR-Balrog, who didn't he try to make people pay him for lessons?
Then you realize that he's all talk and that he could care even less to actually come out to events. Heck he even started a fight with one of the guys who helps out at GVN Summer Jam in Philly (BlackShinobi) despite the fact that said person had actually done more for the community than event has ever done resulting in people figuring out that event couldn't even care less to actually attend community events in Philly.
So going out of your way to help teach players how to gt better at the games they play both online and offline plus gives the community the much needed positive coverage (that he talks about in his thread) = not helping the community. Right. Sorry I never got the memo. I'll be sure to tell everyone else that they should just make YouTube videos accentuating negative things so that they can get more hits since that's obviously the best way to help the community.But I looked in that exact same thread, BlackShinobi was the one who started the whole thing and Event mainly wanted to talk to the guy(did it aggressively, but whatever works), but why did Black want him to head into the event to talk? There was no reason to call someone out, but then tell them to head somewhere else.
And what did BlackShinobi actually do to help the community? All I heard was that he shoots pictures, how is that helping the community? And besides, you don't NEED to be in a community to make sure it heads into the right place, that's ridiculous.
Until BlackShinobi actually HELPS(and I actually hear of him bettering the community), bringing him up means nothing to me. But so we don't do this song and dance again, I'll refer to BlackPreon instead.
The thing to note is that there is drama and a bit of hostility in any community. The problem is that (as BlackShinobi stated in his thread on SRK), is that the negative always seems to be played up. When the community does something positive, we barely get a mention on a couple of smaller sites. When it's something bad, it's up everywhere on Kotaku and what have you. Guys like event aren't really helping much in this regard.See? This is the type of thing more communities need: Players being humble, being honest and try to help out others.
This is the main reason why I cannot stand any of Capcom's communities in general: Not everyone is bad, but the vibe is so toxic, it rubs off of every other community BECAUSE they are mainly seen as THE FGC.
So seeing this does make me hopeful, especially if people actually take it to heart rather than on their sleeve.
From personal experience in my local scenes, I'll tell locals frame data about Cody(who I main)and how people can punish it and unfortunately people will shrug it off as if I said something unimportant. So it isn't just people not helping but also I think a pride where people don't think they need to listen as well. May just be my scene though...
Yep. We too busy calling each other scrubs and hating each other over theory fights. We like to shyt on each other more than we like to lift each other up.
The FGC community (online at least) is diseased with immature, oversensitive egos. They'd rather call others scrubs or pat themselves on the back for stomping on new players than be constructive or provide advice.
Some people in the scene have been saying hey lets do training sessions together and make the scene better for years. Some players don’t bother going to sessions because they don’t want their tech figured out. The fact that this discussion is now being taken serious only after PR Balrog got his butt handed to him is a testament that it will take years for this scene to begin to get to the level it needs to, to grow.
I have said it myself the play style of Japanese players and Americans are totally different. I didn’t need to travel to Japan and get beat up to know this. In this country it’s straight to top tier characters and gimmicks. UMVC 3 is a prime example. There is tech out here with multiple characters but people don’t take the time to find out; they go to what is easy: Vergil, Morrigan, Wesker etc. When the Rocket Raccoon player came from Japan that one year and bodied everyone you started seeing more raccoon players. We don’t innovate over here, we copy.
PR Balrog: It's hard to explain. We are used to just going and playing in tournaments. We don't really study the games that we play.
If something is good we just apply it, and if it works we just keep going for it without understanding, and we just say it's good.
When they find something cheap here [in Japan] they study it to see why, etc.
PR Balrog: Things learned in Japan.
1. Be more patient
2. Train for tournament quality not just results
4. Get rid of bad habits
5. Smile
Here's the thing, when did I turn this into hating him for hating BlackShinobi? I stated exactly what I heard and what I seen from that topic and speaking my own mind based on that alone. And where is this stuff you are talking about? Is there any threads that covers his helping hand? Any videos? Because hell, I've seen DOA players be far more helpful than he has(no, not you guys, NORMAL DOA players). I want proof, not words.So going out of your way to help teach players how to gt better at the games they play both online and offline plus gives the community the much needed positive coverage (that he talks about in his thread) = not helping the community. Right. Sorry I never got the memo. I'll be sure to tell everyone else that they should just make YouTube videos accentuating negative things so that they can get more hits since that's obviously the best way to help the community.
Because when the negative happens, it's freaking stupid, and I don't mean that in the simple ways, I mean literally having videos of them acting like complete dumbasses while trying to act "professional". It's things like out and out collusion and wasting everyone's time by playing a horrible ass match just because. Just because it happens in every community doesn't suddenly make it right or just, so I don't see how one person pointing out the flaws isn't helping?(Especially since the solution IS in your hands)The thing to note is that there is drama and a bit of hostility in any community. The problem is that (as BlackShinobi stated in his thread on SRK), is that the negative always seems to be played up. When the community does something positive, we barely get a mention on a couple of smaller sites. When it's something bad, it's up everywhere on Kotaku and what have you. Guys like event aren't really helping much in this regard.
And for a video game community, THAT SHIT ISN'T HEALTHY FOR ANYONE. That's the exact reason why these stupid console wars have escalated into the extreme level nonsense it became. Why the Capcom FGC pretty much despises every other fighting game on the market that isn't Capcom and vice versa, etc.Another thing to remember is that this is a community that is built around rivalries. East Coast vs. West Coast, NorCal vs SoCal, Japan vs. USA, etc. So there's a lot of pride involved as well. Also, people aren't as willing to share outside of their communities because they don't want their tech exposed. There's an old acronym for this that goes STSFN - Save That Stuff* For Nationals. It's something that everyone practices, even the Japanese to a degree (remember how d44BAS dominated CvS2 since he knew strong tech from the beta tests of the game, tech that any other folks would have reported to Capcom for balancing).